I had some time yesterday so I got on the bike and headed out for a
random ride. I went through Livermore and saw Tesla Rd, and
remembered reading about it on Pashnit so I took it just to see where
it went. Not a bad road. Surprising amount of traffic for a road
that doesn't actually go anywhere. And kind of windy but not too bad.

Anyway I ended up on 580, halfway to Modesto. So I turned west and
headed back.

I found myself on the famous Altamont Pass. The winds along there
were about the worst I've ever seen (at least on a bike). Not just
strong but gusty. It was blowing me around like a paper doll! I was
in the far right lane, going sometimes as slow as 45 mph, and big
gusts of wind were blowing me nearly right out of the lane. To the
right of the slow lane, the breakdown lane had just recently been
oiled, and I thought 'If I hit that, I'm a dead guy.' It was very
scary. Of course everything from small cars to 18-wheelers were
whooshng past me like I was on a bicycle, which didn't help.

Is it always this windy up there or are there certain times of day
when it's not so bad? Are there alternate routes?

Also it got me to wondering. I am mostly a coastal/mountains rider,
but my new bike is a big, heavy tourer that yearns for the wide open
spaces. Are there wind problems like this in all big flat areas,
like, say the delta or the central valley, or Manitoba?

I ride it every day to and from work.

I must just be accustomed to it.
I only really notice it on bad days.

Your bike may just have a significantly larger profile from the side.

Mike

"blazing laser" <none> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>I had some time yesterday so I got on the bike and headed out for a
> random ride. I went through Livermore and saw Tesla Rd, and
> remembered reading about it on Pashnit so I took it just to see where
> it went. Not a bad road. Surprising amount of traffic for a road
> that doesn't actually go anywhere. And kind of windy but not too bad.
>
> Anyway I ended up on 580, halfway to Modesto. So I turned west and
> headed back.
>
> I found myself on the famous Altamont Pass. The winds along there
> were about the worst I've ever seen (at least on a bike). Not just
> strong but gusty. It was blowing me around like a paper doll! I was
> in the far right lane, going sometimes as slow as 45 mph, and big
> gusts of wind were blowing me nearly right out of the lane. To the
> right of the slow lane, the breakdown lane had just recently been
> oiled, and I thought 'If I hit that, I'm a dead guy.' It was very
> scary. Of course everything from small cars to 18-wheelers were
> whooshng past me like I was on a bicycle, which didn't help.
>
> Is it always this windy up there or are there certain times of day
> when it's not so bad? Are there alternate routes?
>
> Also it got me to wondering. I am mostly a coastal/mountains rider,
> but my new bike is a big, heavy tourer that yearns for the wide open
> spaces. Are there wind problems like this in all big flat areas,
> like, say the delta or the central valley, or Manitoba?

blazing laser wrote:

> Is it always this windy up there

Didn't you notice all the wind-driven generators up there in Altamont
Pass? They wouldn't have been installed if the developers couldn't
depend on steady winds. There are wind-driven generators at Tehachapi
and at Palm Springs...

> or are there certain times of day when it's not so bad?

Maybe after it gets dark, or early in the morning. When most of the
desert was open, we'd get out and ride as early as 6AM and be done with
our ride by noon when the sun would start swirling thermals rising and
the winds would pick up and begin to gust...

The wind is solar powered...

Have you ever heard of the phrase "sigh of dawn"? Probably not. The
Native American weather shamans came up with that mystical sounding
phrase. In the morning, when the sun comes up and heats the land, air
flows gently up the canyons. At night there's a "sigh of dusk" as the
heated air cools and flows gently back down the same canyons. You can
feel a slow breeze and alternating cool/hot air temperatures as the air
flows downwards...

After the sun goes down is a peaceful time to ride. Too bad you can't
*see* the scenery.

The gentle "sigh of dawn/dusk" is nothing compared to the solar-powered
afternoon winds that whip across much of California...

> Also it got me to wondering. I am mostly a coastal/mountains rider,
> but my new bike is a big, heavy tourer that yearns for the wide open
> spaces. Are there wind problems like this in all big flat areas,
> like, say the delta or the central valley, or Manitoba?

Sure. California has two windy Antelope Valleys. One is around
Lancaster and Palmdale, and the other is east of Paso Robles. The wind
blows like crazy as it comes up over a hill and down the other side...

Did you ever notice the Coast Range wind or the wind that comes down
off the Santa Lucias, toward Salinas? It blows from the Pacific, over
the mountains, down into the valley that Hwy 101 passes through...

Then there is the Sierra Wave that makes the wind blow hard across the
Owens Valley. Winds whipping across the western slopes of the Sierra
Nevada are angled gently upward, and this action compresses the air and
heats it. The Coast Range Wave that causes winds along Highway 101 is
nothing compared to the Sierra Wave. The SW has lifted airplanes to 40K
or 50K altitude. One pilot of a WW2 P-38 found himself ascending in the
SW so fast he shut off his engines and took a picture of the altimeter
and rate of climb indicator and his tachs and vacuum gauges reading
zero...

The Sierra Wave descends the eastern slopes of the Sierra Nevada and
blows like crazy across Hwy 395 in the afternoon. The Sierra Wave
bounces off the floor of the Owens Valley and undulates across the
desert...

The afternoon is not a good time to be riding through the Owens Valley
or either of the two Antelope Valleys, or the Central Valley, or around
Salinas...

On 2005-06-29, blazing laser <none> wrote:

> Is it always this windy up there or are there certain times of day
> when it's not so bad? Are there alternate routes?

It's been exceptionally windy here (lvrmr) for the last couple days,
but yes, the wind funnels through the Altamont at a pretty good clip
with lots of gusts to keep you on your toes. How much it buffs one
around depends a lot on bike/rider weight/profile.

nb

blazing laser wrote:

>I had some time yesterday so I got on the bike and headed out for a
>random ride. I went through Livermore and saw Tesla Rd, and
>remembered reading about it on Pashnit so I took it just to see where
>it went. Not a bad road. Surprising amount of traffic for a road
>that doesn't actually go anywhere. And kind of windy but not too bad.
>
>Anyway I ended up on 580, halfway to Modesto. So I turned west and
>headed back.
>
>I found myself on the famous Altamont Pass. The winds along there
>were about the worst I've ever seen (at least on a bike). Not just
>strong but gusty. It was blowing me around like a paper doll! I was
>in the far right lane, going sometimes as slow as 45 mph, and big
>gusts of wind were blowing me nearly right out of the lane. To the
>right of the slow lane, the breakdown lane had just recently been
>oiled, and I thought 'If I hit that, I'm a dead guy.' It was very
>scary. Of course everything from small cars to 18-wheelers were
>whooshng past me like I was on a bicycle, which didn't help.
>
>Is it always this windy up there or are there certain times of day
>when it's not so bad? Are there alternate routes?
>
>Also it got me to wondering. I am mostly a coastal/mountains rider,
>but my new bike is a big, heavy tourer that yearns for the wide open
>spaces. Are there wind problems like this in all big flat areas,
>like, say the delta or the central valley, or Manitoba?
>
>
In the summer time these gusty areas are usually worse (longer days and
the sunlight is more 'concentrated')
I have found that the Salinas valley is TERRIBLE in summer afternoons.
I rode from SLO to King City (to cut
over to hwy 25 up to Hollister) and my neck felt like I had taken a beating.

I ride sportbikes so maybe I shouldn't answer. But anyway.....Altamont Pass
can indeed be windy. I-80 between Dixon and Vallejo can get you going too.
Pt. Reyes out by the North and South Beaches can be freaky. The Antioch
Bridge to SR160 can be hairy. I-5 crosswinds down in the San Joaquin can
get going occasionally. Parts of 395 get blown about like a kite. Nevada
droning is often done at a lean angle despite the endless straights, but
gusts are usually easily predictable. I-84 in the Columbia Gorge was pretty
windy. Wyoming is the most interesting state besides CA windwise.
High-plains, uninterrupted, and hence energetic crosswinds, with seemingly
random gusting that has nothing to do with topography or any other type of
visible cueing, gives the biker some additional adversity.

I have pulled over for many a reason, but I have never pulled over because
it was too windy. I have been tempted, but ****, it would just blow the
bike over anyway. Bikers, truckers, and pilots, with a little experience
and understanding, know more about the weather than anybody. So keep on
biking and coping with the wind. Tire pressure plays an important role
especially the heavier the bike, and don't clamp onto the bike like a vise.
I have found that lighter, unloaded sportbikes with fatter tires (larger
contact patch) laugh at many extremely windy conditions. Add a rider with
earplugs and gear with good fit, a rider a bit more insulated from
windnoise, and certain windy conditions might not even be noticed. Ah well
it's all perception anyway, on a long ride I'd head right into a dark
thunderstorm, but some Sundays, contemplating a ride down to Alice's or
such, a licked finger thrust in the air might determine whether I grab
throttle or the remote control.
Later!
Alex C.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 03:47:48 GMT, Timberwoof
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I found that my big heavy R1100GS, although it's taller, deals with the wind
>better than my little CB-1 did.

and my R1100RS hardly notices anything but the very worst winds, and even
those are easily handled. I crossed the bay bridge once with a serious
storm coming in, I think that was the worst I've ever experienced. hit
some bad winds on altamont and pacheco, but they were quite easily
handled. as someone said, relax your arms and hands, keep firm but not
tight grip on the tank with your knees, and let the bike wander a bit.

blazing laser wrote:
> I had some time yesterday so I got on the bike and headed out for a
> random ride. I went through Livermore and saw Tesla Rd, and
> remembered reading about it on Pashnit so I took it just to see where
> it went. Not a bad road. Surprising amount of traffic for a road
> that doesn't actually go anywhere. And kind of windy but not too bad.
>
> Anyway I ended up on 580, halfway to Modesto. So I turned west and
> headed back.
>
> I found myself on the famous Altamont Pass. The winds along there
> were about the worst I've ever seen (at least on a bike). Not just
> strong but gusty. It was blowing me around like a paper doll! I was
> in the far right lane, going sometimes as slow as 45 mph, and big
> gusts of wind were blowing me nearly right out of the lane. To the
> right of the slow lane, the breakdown lane had just recently been
> oiled, and I thought 'If I hit that, I'm a dead guy.' It was very
> scary. Of course everything from small cars to 18-wheelers were
> whooshng past me like I was on a bicycle, which didn't help.
>
> Is it always this windy up there or are there certain times of day
> when it's not so bad? Are there alternate routes?
>
> Also it got me to wondering. I am mostly a coastal/mountains rider,
> but my new bike is a big, heavy tourer that yearns for the wide open
> spaces. Are there wind problems like this in all big flat areas,
> like, say the delta or the central valley, or Manitoba?

Wind is a fact of life, especially in the Western US. Some places are
more predictable than others -- you will get blown around pretty much
any time you hit the intersection of Market and 10th in SF. And as
somebody else pointed out, the wind farms of Altamont should give you a
clue.

Fair weather winds blow hardest in the Bay Area between 2 PM and sunset
(for some reason, winds in San Diego county tend to be strongest in the
mornings). You can't always plan your travels to avoid them, so it's
best to learn to work with them. A modified form of tacking is
sometimes needed, and if you need to park, try to find terrain so that
the left side of the bike is lower than the right, so that the wind
would have to work harder to blow the bike over.

Rich, Urban Biker

Timberwoof wrote:
> "mentALEXcersize" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > I have found that lighter, unloaded sportbikes with fatter tires (larger
> > contact patch) laugh at many extremely windy conditions.

> I'm curious.

I've noticed that ;-) ;-)

> Why would the size of a bike's contact patch make a difference? It
> seems to me that it would be all about the frontal area presented to
> the wind, the bike's mass, and the location of the center of drag.

The size of the rear tire's contact patch and its profile makes a lot
of difference in a motorbike's resistance to being blown around by the
wind.

A bigger contact patch has more *grip*, and that grip isn't necessarily
related to the classic coefficient of friction that most of us studied
in high school or college physics classes. Weight does matter, and area
of the contact patch matters too, but synthetic rubber tires *adhere*
to the pavement and soft rubber interlocks with the surface roughness
to grip the road. Classic studies of coefficient of friction do not
address adhesion at the molecular level, it's never considered that
anything may be transfered beween the two saurfaces, nor is in
considered that the surfaces may interlock...

So far as aerodynamics are concerned, a motorbike (with a big fairing
up front and the center of pressure far forward and the combined center
of gravity rather far to the rear, especially with the rider sitting
upright) is aerodynamically unstable...

An arrow or a weather vane automatically turns into the wind and aligns
with the wind. A faired motorcycle with tend to turn away from the wind
because of all that area up front. However, the front tire will
automatically compensate for the motorbike being pushed off the
intended course. If you have a steady wind from the side, a motorbike
will automatically lean into the wind slightly. But there is always a
problem of
traction balance between the smaller front tire and the larger rear
tire. The smaller front tire has to work harder to keep the bike going
straight when there is a side wind, and the amount of automatic
correction it makes may not be enough, the rider may have to
countersteer a bit to make the motorbike lean a little more, or he may
decide to shift his weight toward the windy side...

Decades ago, it was popular to replace the stock Bridgestone Cyrox
radial 140mm wide rear tires on GSXR-750's with Dunlop K-591 170mm wide
tires.

Those tires were 1.18 inches wider than stock and they would have too
much profile when they were new. Gusts of wind on the flats in the
Antelope Valley would easily blow my GSXR all over the road. But, as
the tire profile wore off and it became flatter in the middle and rear
traction would increase because the tire contact patch was getting
bigger.

The rear tire felt rock solid in a cross wind, but the front tire had a
much harder time compensating for the wind. I had to put a lot of
pressure on the handlebars to countersteer...

After years of using those K-591's, Dunlop discontinued them and I
decided to try some 140mm wide Bridgestone BattleAx BT-45V's. I figured
that th GSXR would be more agile in the tight canyons. It was, but
gusting winds would blow the GSXR across the road...


> I found that my big heavy R1100GS, although it's taller, deals with the wind
> better than my little CB-1 did.

As above. Weight, tire contact patch size, tire profile...

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:53:23 GMT, "Rich, Urban Biker"
<jaguar943-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


> and if you need to park, try to find terrain so that
>the left side of the bike is lower than the right, so that the wind
>would have to work harder to blow the bike over.

Hmmm. You got me confused there. The left side of the bike is
-always- the lower side. You mean to park with the kickstand upwind?