On Feb 25, 7:24*pm, "`" <breoganmacbr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 25, 12:44*pm, Biker Dude <jacobsenpa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Before I begin I am wondering if the repairs are really needed at this
> > time. *Are there specific, objective tests of these components that
> > say "go" or "no go"?
>
> It's hard to tell if the springs are sacked out without a lot of
> diasembly and measurement, but there are ways that experienced riders
> use to tell if the springs are strong enough to do their job.
>
> Find out what the stroke of the front forks is so you'll have an idea
> of how saggy the front springs are.
>
> Place a ty-wrap (zip tie) around the steel leg and take as much weight
> as posible off the front end with one hand and push the ty-wrap all
> the way down onto the dust seal.
>
> Then gently sit down on the bike and get off and measure how far the
> ty-wrap moved. If it moved more than around 50% of the stroke, the
> springs are too weak *for your weight."
>
> You can do the same test on the rear springs, which have adjustable
> preload.
>
> You should use up about 33% of the stroke just sitting down on the
> seat. If you use more than that, the springs are either too weak *for
> your weight*, or they are
> sacked out.
>
> So far as the rebound damping of the shocks and forks is concerned, do
> the wheels chatter when you go across bumps?
>
> That means the rebound damping is inadequate, possibly because the oil
> in the dampers is too thin or too old or there just isn't enough oil
> there.
>
> And, if you are going around a fast curve with the motorcycle leaned
> over to 40~45 degrees and the chassis starts misbehaving and the
> motorcycle starts heading over the center line, that's a pretty good
> indication that you don't have enough rebound damping, for one of the
> reasons in the previous paragraph.

Odd...you just said exaclty what Neil and Paul said only not as well.

On Feb 25, 6:43*pm, "Lower than Pigeon ****"
<stevenkei...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Odd...you just said exaclty what Neil and Paul said only not as well.

No, neither one said what I said.

But, how could you read anybody's messages with Neil Murray's dick in
your mouth?

On Feb 26, 1:59*am, "`" <breoganmacbr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 25, 6:43*pm, "Lower than Pigeon ****"
>
> <stevenkei...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Odd...you just said exaclty what Neil and Paul said only not as well.
>
> No, neither one said what I said.
>
> But, how could you read anybody's messages with Neil Murray's dick in
> your mouth?

s'matter too stupid or too lazy to read their posts...you just said
what they did only after a judicious re-write, you plagerizing hack.

On Feb 26, 5:45*am, "Still Buzzed From Last Night"
<stevenkei...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 26, 1:59*am, "`" <breoganmacbr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> s'matter too stupid or too lazy to read their posts...you just said
> what they did only after a judicious re-write, you plagerizing hack.

Try sobering up and re-reading my message and comparing it to the
other messages.

Then, if you still have a divergent opininion, stick your finger down
your throat and
call out Ralph's name while kneeling before the porcelin throne.

Biker Dude wrote:

> The bike is an 82 Kawie KZ550 - C3, and I'm contemplating some
> suspension work. The obvious work would include the installation of
> new spring/shocks and rebuilding the forks.
>
> Before I begin I am wondering if the repairs are really needed at this
> time. Are there specific, objective tests of these components that
> say "go" or "no go"?
>
> Or are decisions made by "If it feels worn out it is"?

Bit of both. Some are objective, some subjective.

First off, the front end. The fluid will be quite nasty by now, so count on
replacing it. The springs may have taken a set. Measure them. If they have
taken a set of a few mm, big deal. I used to use 2p coins as preload
adjusters. Washers have the same effect.

Budget for new seals. Not expensive and easy to do.

Your forks may have bushing in them. Just check for excessive wear. Check
also for wear and pitting in the stanchions.

Alternatively, go to the racetech site and buy some new springs and oil, or,
if you want a more comfortable ride, get some progressive springs.

As you've now got pretty much all the front end off, it is worth checking
and replacing/greasing the steering bearings.

At the back, if they are the original units, just check for leaks and
pitting on the pushrod. They will probably have lost any semblance of
damping by now, so budget for a replacement set.

You can get some cheap and nasty, you can get cheap and tolerable, you can
get inexpensive and quite good, or you can get very expensive, flash
looking, very good.

Personally, I use a UK company called Hagon, which fall in to the
inexpensive and quite good category. Unless you want bling, you don't need
the very expensive stuff that may have umlauts in the name for road riding.

I don't doubt you'll have a Hagon equivalent. I once had some Koni dial-a-
rides on a similar bike. They were quite good.

>
> I do have a toolbox, a Clymer manual, and a positive mental attitude.

The three things you really need.

> So tell me, Fount of All Knowledge, what are the objective means or
> methods to test these components?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Biker Dude.

On Feb 26, 8:59*am, "M.Badger" <bo...@invalid.org> wrote:

> Alternatively, go to the racetech site and buy some new springs and oil,

Race Tech has a spring rate calculator that's very helpful, but most
American riders have no idea of how to convert kilograms force per
millimeter of compression into a pounds per inch spring rate.

I've posted the conversion factor to various NG's several times, but I
haven't heard even the sound of crickets chirping for all my efforts.

> or, if you want a more comfortable ride, get some progressive springs.

A rider who follows that advice should be aware that progressive
springs take up more space in the fork stanchion tube and the amount
of fork oil should be decreased accordingly.

The biggest supplier of progressive springs to the motorcycle
aftermarket in the USA is Progressive Suspension who fabricate generic
progressive springs that fit many applications.

Since PS have not actually installed their springs in all the
motorcycles which the springs fit in, PS *cannot* tell customers
precisely what level of fork oil will do the job without hydraulically
locking the fork before it uses up all travel.

Having a front fork hydraulic lock when hitting a sudden bump whilst
leaned over in a corner will cause the front tire to have less
traction and the motorcycle won't follow the intended line, with
possibly fatal results.

` wrote:

> On Feb 26, 8:59 am, "M.Badger" <bo...@invalid.org> wrote:
>
>> Alternatively, go to the racetech site and buy some new springs and oil,
>
> Race Tech has a spring rate calculator that's very helpful, but most
> American riders have no idea of how to convert kilograms force per
> millimeter of compression into a pounds per inch spring rate.

That's what search engines are for

>
> I've posted the conversion factor to various NG's several times, but I
> haven't heard even the sound of crickets chirping for all my efforts.
>
>> or, if you want a more comfortable ride, get some progressive springs.
>
> A rider who follows that advice should be aware that progressive
> springs take up more space in the fork stanchion tube and the amount
> of fork oil should be decreased accordingly.

Last time I bought Progressive rather than Hagon, the package contained
quite detailed instructions on setting the air gap.

>
> The biggest supplier of progressive springs to the motorcycle
> aftermarket in the USA is Progressive Suspension who fabricate generic
> progressive springs that fit many applications.
>
> Since PS have not actually installed their springs in all the
> motorcycles which the springs fit in, PS *cannot* tell customers
> precisely what level of fork oil will do the job without hydraulically
> locking the fork before it uses up all travel.

It really isn't difficult to work out the relative displacements of the
springs. Think Archimedes.

>
> Having a front fork hydraulic lock when hitting a sudden bump whilst
> leaned over in a corner will cause the front tire to have less
> traction and the motorcycle won't follow the intended line, with
> possibly fatal results.

A hydro lock caused by a bump mid corner would have to have been one mother
of a bump as the relative bump displacement is vertical, not along the line
of the forks. In terms of bump absorption, the greater the lean angle, the
stiffer the effective rate of the springs appears to be. At 45deg lean, the
suspension is very stiff, or appears to be, with regard to bumps.

On Feb 26, 12:40*pm, "M.Badger" <bo...@invalid.org> wrote:
> ` wrote:

> Last time I bought Progressive rather than Hagon, the package contained
> quite detailed instructions on setting the air gap.

Well, it's good to hear that PS are improving their product.


> > PS *cannot* tell customers
> > precisely what level of fork oil will do the job without hydraulically
> > locking the fork before it uses up all travel.

> It really isn't difficult to work out the relative displacements of the
> springs. Think Archimedes.

One of my great grand uncles was named Pythagoras and another was
named Byron, but neither one helped me academically.

There is a definite dearth of good basic technical information in the
American motorcycle press. Since Gordon Jennings, a degreed engineer
with a passion for motorcycles died, only Kevin Cameron is left.

And what can one editorial column per month do to educate the American
rider in
a magazine that basically exists to peddle aftermarket products?

The rider thinks he can buy bolt-on improvement without understanding
what the product does or that he needs to know the basics of physics.

Once he owns the product, he cannot deny that he has wasted his time
and money on a product that doesn't achieve what he expected.

> A hydro lock caused by a bump mid corner would have to have been one mother
> of a bump as the relative bump displacement is vertical, not along the line
> of the forks. In terms of bump absorption, the greater the lean angle, the
> stiffer the effective rate of the springs appears to be. At 45deg lean, the
> suspension is very stiff, or appears to be, with regard to bumps.

That's true, but Americans riding street bikes through canyons
following creeks
usually don't get leaned over much more than about 30 degrees.

And any decent motorcycle race track is going to need billiard table
smooth pavement if the riders are going to get to 45+ degrees of lean
angle...

M.Badger <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Personally, I use a UK company called Hagon, which fall in to the
> inexpensive and quite good category. Unless you want bling, you don't need
> the very expensive stuff that may have umlauts in the name for road riding.

<Nods> Hagon kit definitely falls into the "excellent value for money"
category. They've got the quality/price relationship just right.
>
> I don't doubt you'll have a Hagon equivalent. I once had some Koni dial-a-
> rides on a similar bike. They were quite good.

Ikon shocks. They're basically Konis, but they don't have the rights to
the name, so they moved the 'i' to the front of the name. Supposed to be
good, though I've never tried them.


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple
Suzuki TS250ER GN250 Damn, back to six bikes!
Try Googling before asking a damn silly question.
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

On Feb 26, 7:01*am, "swallows the load" <breoganmacbr...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Feb 26, 5:45*am,
>
> <stevenkei...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 26, 1:59*am, "`" <breoganmacbr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > s'matter too stupid or too lazy to read their posts...you just said
> > what they did only after a judicious re-write, you plagerizing hack.
>
> Try sobering up and re-reading my message and comparing it to the
> other messages.
>
> Then, if you still have a divergent opininion, stick your finger down
> your throat and
> call out Ralph's name while kneeling before the porcelin throne.

actually you hack I did...and once again your pathetic plagerizing
shone through. you loser.