Older CBR600, lo-miles.

Engine warm, accelerate up hill, maybe 35 mph, in 3rd gear. Reach
top, dis-engage clutch, coast down hill in 3rd. with clutch lever
actuated. When I hunker down, I can hear a sort-of growling/grinding
noise.

This is "normal operating noise" for a bike with a wet clutch?

Willie

On Nov 9, 2:51*pm, Willie The Wimp <Cadillac.cof...@screwmail.com>
wrote:
> Older CBR600, lo-miles.
>
> Engine warm, accelerate up hill, maybe 35 mph, in 3rd gear. Reach
> top, dis-engage clutch, coast down hill in 3rd. with clutch lever
> actuated. When I hunker down, I can hear a sort-of growling/grinding
> noise.

Wet clutch baskets will make a low frequency clattering clunking noise
at about 1/3 the engine RPM with the clutch lever OUT.

If you pull the clutch lever IN and the noise goes away, that's the
clutch basket
flopping around a liitle bit on its bearings which ride on the
transmission mainshaft.

If there is still a lot of clattering and clanking with the clutch
lever pulled IN all the way, the two other suspects are a loose or
worn out cam chain, or a starter clutch that's flopping around on its
shaft.

Willie The Wimp <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Older CBR600, lo-miles.
>
> Engine warm, accelerate up hill, maybe 35 mph, in 3rd gear. Reach
> top, dis-engage clutch, coast down hill in 3rd. with clutch lever
> actuated. When I hunker down, I can hear a sort-of growling/grinding
> noise.

That'll be the chain and transmission.
>
> This is "normal operating noise" for a bike with a wet clutch?
>
It's not the clutch. Not if you have the lever pulled in..


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple
Suzuki TS250ER GN250 Damn, back to six bikes!
Try Googling before asking a damn silly question.
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

Shantideva Upasaka <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> If there is still a lot of clattering and clanking with the clutch
> lever pulled IN all the way, the two other suspects are a loose or
> worn out cam chain, or a starter clutch that's flopping around on its
> shaft.

Wrong again. Different type of noise entirely.

--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple
Suzuki TS250ER GN250 Damn, back to six bikes!
Try Googling before asking a damn silly question.
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 07:14:38 +0000, (E-Mail Removed) (The Older Gentleman)
wrote:

>Willie The Wimp <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Older CBR600, lo-miles.
>>
>> Engine warm, accelerate up hill, maybe 35 mph, in 3rd gear. Reach
>> top, dis-engage clutch, coast down hill in 3rd. with clutch lever
>> actuated. When I hunker down, I can hear a sort-of growling/grinding
>> noise.
>
>That'll be the chain and transmission.
>>
>> This is "normal operating noise" for a bike with a wet clutch?
>>
>It's not the clutch. Not if you have the lever pulled in..

OK.

A 2nd scenario. I go out the garage, start the bike cold, hold the
clutch lever in whilst in neutral gear, hear a very similar sort-of
growling/grinding noise. By the time I roll the bike out the garage
(maybe 15 seconds), the noise stops. I always try to wait for this
before shifting to 1st gear (less clunk).

Normal clutch noise?

Thanks,
Wille

Willie The Wimp <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> OK.
>
> A 2nd scenario. I go out the garage, start the bike cold, hold the
> clutch lever in whilst in neutral gear, hear a very similar sort-of
> growling/grinding noise. By the time I roll the bike out the garage
> (maybe 15 seconds), the noise stops. I always try to wait for this
> before shifting to 1st gear (less clunk).
>
> Normal clutch noise?
>
Hard to tell without listening, but all transmissions and clutches make
a noise somewhere or other. Just ride it. I don't think anything at all
is wrong with it.


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple
Suzuki TS250ER GN250 Damn, back to six bikes!
Try Googling before asking a damn silly question.
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

On Nov 10, 10:57*am, Willie The Wimp <Cadillac.cof...@screwmail.com>
wrote:

> A 2nd scenario. I go out the garage, start the bike cold, hold the
> clutch lever in whilst in neutral gear, hear a very similar sort-of
> growling/grinding noise. By the time I roll the bike out the garage
> (maybe 15 seconds), the noise stops. I always try to wait for this
> before shifting to 1st gear (less clunk).
>
> Normal clutch noise?

As I said previously, the clutch basket itself has to ride on a
bearing that allows it to turn at a different speed from the
transmission mainshaft.

If this bearing is worn out, the clutch basket can flop around
radially and it will make a rattling sound until you pull the clutch
lever in.

Part of the noise is also due to slight misalignments of the primary
gears, which are usually straight cut gears.

Straight cut gears are generally noisy anyway.

If the big nut that holds the clutch center hub onto the transmission
mainshaft is really loose from drive train slop over the decades, the
clutch basket can also walk sideways, along the axis of the mainshaft.

Pulling the clutch lever on a Honda will usually push a loose clutch
center hub towards the centerline of the motorcycle, because the
clutch is build Honda-screwy, it's inside out, compared to Suzuki,
Yamaha, and some Kawasaki clutches.

Pushing on a loose clutch by pulling the clutch lever will quiet down
the clutch.

On Suzukis, Yamahas, and some Kawasakis, pulling the clutch lever will
push a loose clutch center hub away from the centerline of the
motorcycle, stopping some of the clutch rattle.

Then there is the transmission itself, which has 5 sets of noisy
straight cut gears, which are all meshed with each other, all the
time, even when the tranmission is in neutral.

These gear sets don't have any bearings inside the gears, so they tend
to be noisy when the engine is cold.

Also, cold engine oil is thicker than warm engine oil, so the gear
sets will try to turn the rear wheel, even when the transmission is in
neutral. It's the thick oil and high idle RPM when cold that causes
the transmission to clunk when you
put it in gear.

You might try putting the transmission into 2nd gear first, to reduce
the clunk, and then put it into 1st gear.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to "TOG", who calls himself "The
Older Gentleman".

He's not older, and he's NO gentleman. He hangs around on Usenet all
day to start arguments with people. He'll tell you that he's "just
trying to help", and that it's all your fault for being too stupid to
describe your problem accurately.

He will insult you and argue some more, and try to get you to admit
that you're the one who's wrong and you'll have to apologize for
"wasting" his time.

He's a Usenet troll, this is what he does all day.

Shantideva Upasaka <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

<snip>

> I wouldn't pay too much attention to "TOG", who calls himself "The
> Older Gentleman".
>
> He's not older, and he's NO gentleman. He hangs around on Usenet all
> day to start arguments with people. He'll tell you that he's "just
> trying to help", and that it's all your fault for being too stupid to
> describe your problem accurately.
>
> He will insult you and argue some more, and try to get you to admit
> that you're the one who's wrong and you'll have to apologize for
> "wasting" his time.

Nope. He's just saying the guy doesn't have a problem. And he's just
said that all transmissions make a noise of one sort or another, only he
managed it in rather fewer words than you just have.


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple
Suzuki TS250ER GN250 Damn, back to six bikes!
Try Googling before asking a damn silly question.
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

On Nov 10, 11:22*pm, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
Gentleman) wrote:

> Nope. He's just saying the guy doesn't have a problem.

How do you KNOW that?

You don't KNOW whether he has a problem with cam chain tension, worn
out chain and sprockets, a loose clutch hub, bent shifter forks, or a
starter clutch that's about to lock up and throw him onto the
pavement.

You just don't KNOW.

But I think if you go over to ukrm, you can find a whole bunch of
Slimey supporters who will be glad to extend this thread to 90 or 100
off topic messages...

On 11 Nov, 13:40, Shantideva Upasaka <macmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 10, 11:22*pm, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
>
> Gentleman) wrote:
> > Nope. He's just saying the guy doesn't have a problem.
>
> How do you KNOW that?
>
> You don't KNOW whether he has a problem with cam chain tension, worn
> out chain and sprockets, a loose clutch hub, bent shifter forks, or a
> starter clutch that's about to lock up and throw him onto the
> pavement.
>
> You just don't KNOW.
>
You're talking about one of the most tough and reliable[1] bikes that
Honda ever built. I'd roll with the percentages. The odds are that Mr
Honda got it right (because he does, mostly), you've got it wrong
(because you do, mostly), and he's worrying unduly (because a lot of
newbies do). So I'll say that none of the above is likely to "throw
him onto a pavement" any time soon.

If that does happen, though, I'll certainly apologise. Oh, and I
mentioned chain and sprocket noise ages ago. I see you've decided to
list it as a possible problem, at last.

[1] Second gear used to go on abused early ones. Reg/rec failure is
well documented, and not confined to the CBR6 anyway.