'Hog wrote:

> sweller wrote:
> > 'Hog wrote:
> >
> > > > You sound quite stupid with the utterly irrelevant Pastor
> > > > Niemoller quote - As an aside the railway has been "zero" since
> > > > 1992, do you think train drivers are being persecuted?
> > >
> > > I doubt it can be absolute zero? or there wouldn't be many train
> > > drivers left. Or pilots. I assume the testing allows for a few ml
> > > variation or somesuch.
> >
> > It's 29mg - which allows for naturally produced alcohol. I have
> > represented a large number of D&A cases and TBH, you have eat a ****
> > load of Mothers Pride to fail the alcohol test.
>
> It's rather more about medication, mouthwash and having had beer 18
> hours ago. But yes, fine.

Medication must be declared (even paracetemol prior to booking on and
prior to the test), if you've used mouthwash (you will be asked) the test
is delayed by 10 or so minutes or you will provide a urine sample (not a
good idea as the testers do not use the double void system).

If you've had beer 18 hours previous and still fail then you're an idiot
for coming to work as you're still over the limit.


> > > Do they also drug test train drivers and is there any sort of random
> > > testing.
> >
> > Yes and also what is known as "for cause" testing. If there's an
> > incident, no matter how minor, the particpants will be D&A tested.
>
> Then things are just as they should be. For pilots and train drivers.
> I wonder if bus drivers are so governed, they should be.

If it should be for PSV drivers, what about HGV? What about taxi drivers?

--
Simon

sweller wrote:
> 'Hog wrote:
>
>> sweller wrote:
>>> 'Hog wrote:
>>>
>>>>> You sound quite stupid with the utterly irrelevant Pastor
>>>>> Niemoller quote - As an aside the railway has been "zero" since
>>>>> 1992, do you think train drivers are being persecuted?
>>>>
>>>> I doubt it can be absolute zero? or there wouldn't be many train
>>>> drivers left. Or pilots. I assume the testing allows for a few ml
>>>> variation or somesuch.
>>>
>>> It's 29mg - which allows for naturally produced alcohol. I have
>>> represented a large number of D&A cases and TBH, you have eat a ****
>>> load of Mothers Pride to fail the alcohol test.
>>
>> It's rather more about medication, mouthwash and having had beer 18
>> hours ago. But yes, fine.
>
> Medication must be declared (even paracetemol prior to booking on and
> prior to the test), if you've used mouthwash (you will be asked) the
> test is delayed by 10 or so minutes or you will provide a urine
> sample (not a good idea as the testers do not use the double void
> system).
>
> If you've had beer 18 hours previous and still fail then you're an
> idiot for coming to work as you're still over the limit.

All tickety Boo then.

>>>> Do they also drug test train drivers and is there any sort of
>>>> random testing.
>>>
>>> Yes and also what is known as "for cause" testing. If there's an
>>> incident, no matter how minor, the particpants will be D&A tested.
>>
>> Then things are just as they should be. For pilots and train drivers.
>> I wonder if bus drivers are so governed, they should be.
>
> If it should be for PSV drivers, what about HGV? What about taxi
> drivers?

PSV, sure. HGV, well they don't carry passengers. Taxi, well that is a
minefield, rather you than me.

--
Hog

'Hog wrote:

> > > > Yes and also what is known as "for cause" testing. If there's an
> > > > incident, no matter how minor, the particpants will be D&A tested.
> > >
> > > Then things are just as they should be. For pilots and train
> > > drivers. I wonder if bus drivers are so governed, they should be.
> >
> > If it should be for PSV drivers, what about HGV? What about taxi
> > drivers?
>
> PSV, sure. HGV, well they don't carry passengers.

So freight train drivers should be exempt from the lower limit too?

--
Simon

sweller <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> 'Hog wrote:
>
>>>>> Yes and also what is known as "for cause" testing. If there's an
>>>>> incident, no matter how minor, the particpants will be D&A tested.
>>>>
>>>> Then things are just as they should be. For pilots and train
>>>> drivers. I wonder if bus drivers are so governed, they should be.
>>>
>>> If it should be for PSV drivers, what about HGV? What about taxi
>>> drivers?
>>
>> PSV, sure. HGV, well they don't carry passengers.
>
> So freight train drivers should be exempt from the lower limit too?

Suggest it at your next annual conference

--
Hog

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, 'Hog
<(E-Mail Removed)> typed
>sweller wrote:
>> SteveH wrote:
>>
>>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/dri...cle7061168.ece
>>>
>>> First, they came for the smokers.... then they came for the
>>> drinkers....
>>>
>>> Exactly as predicted by the smokers, then.
>>
>> You sound quite stupid with the utterly irrelevant Pastor Niemoller
>> quote - As an aside the railway has been "zero" since 1992, do you
>> think train drivers are being persecuted?
>
>I doubt it can be absolute zero? or there wouldn't be many train drivers
>left. Or pilots. I assume the testing allows for a few ml variation or
>somesuch.

Aviation limit is (IIRC) 20mg (blood).

--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - "He's hopeless, but he's honest"

I've always been a man who's open to persuasion

In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Pete Fisher
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>>Then read the context;
>>
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7061148.ece
>
>"Imagine arriving home after a fortnight’s holiday in the sun to find
>a deluge of mail and your burglar alarm going off. There is no sign of
>a break-in but an offence has been committed — by you."

And it's been law for as long as I can remember (and I was in the alarm
business 20 years ago) that the bell must cut-off after 20 minutes.

Noise Abatement regulations that precede the current bunch by a long
chalk.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

In message <4b9e1c93$0$2528$(E-Mail Removed)>, 'Hog
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>> You sound quite stupid with the utterly irrelevant Pastor Niemoller
>> quote - As an aside the railway has been "zero" since 1992, do you
>> think train drivers are being persecuted?
>
>I doubt it can be absolute zero? or there wouldn't be many train
>drivers left. Or pilots. I assume the testing allows for a few ml
>variation or somesuch.
>
>Do they also drug test train drivers and is there any sort of random
>testing.

Yes and yes. It's a condition of the job.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

In communiqué <(E-Mail Removed)>, Steve Fitzgerald
<junk@[127.0.0.1]> cast forth these pearls of wisdom
>In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Pete Fisher
><(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>>>Then read the context;
>>>
>>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7061148.ece
>>
>>"Imagine arriving home after a fortnight’s holiday in the sun to
>>find a deluge of mail and your burglar alarm going off. There is no
>>sign of a break-in but an offence has been committed — by you."
>
>And it's been law for as long as I can remember (and I was in the alarm
>business 20 years ago) that the bell must cut-off after 20 minutes.
>

The 1982 Code of Practice says:

"4.1. In the interests of avoiding risks of serious disturbance to the
public it is *desirable* that audible intruder alarms should be fitted
with an automatic cut- out device. Such a device would automatically
stop the ringing after a period of about 20 minutes from activation of
the system. A cut-out device can be supplemented with a flashing light
which continues to operate after automatic termination of the
ringing, and indicates that the premises are still in alarm condition
(see also paragraph 3.5.)."

>Noise Abatement regulations that precede the current bunch by a long
>chalk.

Which would those be then?

If an installation didn't have a cut-out, a notice could be served
requiring one (Control of Pollution Act 1974 at the time the CoP was
issued, Environmental Protection Act 1990 now), but it's not a direct
offence.

The situation may possibly be different in the London Boroughs though,
as IIRC they may have local bylaws.

In any case, if the alarm is malfunctioning, either the cut-out isn't
working at all or the alarm just keeps going off again for twenty minute
periods. That's why the new provisions have been introduced to require
registration of key holders in designated areas.



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