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Jerez - with spoilers

 
 
Switters
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      04-05-2011, 08:33 AM
On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 03:35:05 GMT, pablo wrote:

> I wonder what Elias' bike issues are about. He claims the bike is
> under-developed.... isn't it a regular Honda...? It seems the problem
> isn't the bike, it's the team, and it's other the engineers or the
> rider, and this is second to last call for Elias.


On British Eurosport the guys were saying that Elias has been saying that
he cannot get enough heat into the Bridgestones, so doesn't have the
feeling for the front that he would like. They've tried lots of
possibilities for the geometry, but so far nothing is working.

Apparently (as I recall) his ideal set up is like a chopper with no
suspension.
 
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Switters
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      04-05-2011, 08:36 AM
On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 07:15:16 GMT, Julian Bond wrote:

> There's some wonderful photos out there.
> - Stoner on top of his bike on top of Rossi's bike on top of Rossi.
> - Stoner being pushed by 5 or 6 marshalls


Ooooh, not seen that.

> - Stoner standing at the side of the track slow clapping Rossi as he
> goes past and Rossi waving back


Haven't seen the waving back one either.

> - Rossi stalking into the Honda pit with a complete media circus behind
> him.


Not suprising. One of the big stories of the day, following a mistake
from the 9x champ. Yeah, I'd follow him too if I were on camera duty.
Heck, they even followed Cluzel into Marquez's garage.

It was certainly entertaining. I'd have loved to have been there.
 
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Julian Bond
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      04-05-2011, 11:01 AM
Switters <(E-Mail Removed)> Tue, 5 Apr 2011 08:36:52
>On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 07:15:16 GMT, Julian Bond wrote:
>
>> There's some wonderful photos out there.
>> - Stoner on top of his bike on top of Rossi's bike on top of Rossi.
>> - Stoner being pushed by 5 or 6 marshalls

>
>Ooooh, not seen that.


http://resources.motogp.com/files/im...0361_Crash_Sto
ner_Rossi003.original.jpg

http://twitpic.com/4gubm9

http://i.imgur.com/I9Cu8.png

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Ed Light
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      04-06-2011, 02:20 AM
FIM to review the marshals' actions:

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/168..._incident.html

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Mark N
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      04-08-2011, 02:25 PM
On 4/3/2011 12:31 PM, Champ wrote:

> To state the obvious, it was a complete **** up on Rossi's part. When
> watching it live on TV, I thought he'd left it too late to try the
> outbraking manoeuvre. Having said that, Rossi has a long history of
> making mistakes, and this may be part of his popularity - he's
> certainly not a machine.


To fill this out a bit, Rossi has a history of making "mistakes", paying
for it in a narrow sense but actually coming out on top in the broader
sense, and in part because of the Rossi "unfair advantage", greater
support from what should be impartial parties in the whole thing. When
you boil it all down, how strikingly similar are Jerez '05 and Jerez '11?

 
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Mark N
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      04-08-2011, 02:54 PM
On 4/3/2011 6:08 PM, pablo wrote:
> it was a crazy and unpredictable race.
>
> because of the conditions i am not sure i'd blame Rossi for a kamikaze
> move. i also hope it does not have a big effect on the championship in
> the end, but it was something that happened between people with the
> proverbial potential so hopefully it will cancel itself out. given how
> competitive this season is turning out to be, i hope that such
> showdowns end just as harmlessly going forward.
>
> i really felt bad about Spies, he was truly laying down a masterful
> performance on a track he is not even that familiar with, and the
> Spanish fans were digging it.
>
> awesome result for Hayden - hopefully a confidence booster under
> conditions that favor riding over material. also great for aoyama
> (respect), elias (fix that bike dude), and hopkins (welcome back - top
> 10 on your first race back must feel like a podium finish).
>
> this is turning out to be a very interesting season thanks to the
> paddock moves.


One could say none of the guys on the podium should have been where they
were - Lorenzo wouldn't likely have won in the dry and probably not in
the wet had Silli, Rossi and Casey not all crashed, Hayden wouldn't have
been close to the podium in the dry and seemed determined to avoid the
podium on his fragged tires in the wet, and Pedrosa was on his way to
his usual embarrassment in the rain when everything went sideways for
almost everyone else (notice how less worn his tire was after the race -
the product of his light weight and/or his tentative riding?). But they
were survivors in a race decided almost entirely on the tires and their
regulation.

I felt the worst for Edwards, who lost a sure podium based on a
mechanical. But Hayden inheriting that back made it a bit better. I
guess Spies shows how bad the situation was out there once the tires
went, not characteristic at all. On the other hand, I was just waiting
for Silli to screw the pooch out there, and he delivered as expected.

Lorenzo did what champions do, somehow; Stoner not, the helpless victim
in this episode of the Valentino Rossi Show, and Pedrosa totally dodged
a bullet on his way to better shoulder/arm health. Rossi did as well or
better than he would have in the dry, and he also managed to cost a
championship rival as much as 25 points in the process. In the end this
could be a very critical moment in the championship, once it settles
down and becomes a straight fight between 2, 3 or all 4 of these guys.
 
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Mark N
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      04-08-2011, 03:59 PM
On 4/4/2011 2:37 AM, Champ wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 20:31:01 +0100, Champ<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> However, as reported by Julian above, I do have a bit more respect for
>> Stoner if that's how he handled it.

>
> But now I don't. From MotoGP.com:
>
> Stoner: ”For sure, I would prefer if Valentino did it away from the
> cameras and would say something to me quietly without always having to
> have proof,” commented Stoner. ”For sure Valentino doesn’t do this for
> himself, he just wants to show to everybody that he has apologised.
> Yes it’s a nice gesture, it’s very good, but it still doesn’t change
> the result today, so we’ll see what happens in the next races.”
>
> So, he's complaining that Rossi came to apologise while the cameras
> were on him. Well, pretty much everything Rossi does at a GP weekend
> has cameras on him, and if he'd waited for a quiet moment, no doubt
> Stoner would claim that "Rossi took hours to come and apologise".
>
> Stoner really is a whinging little ****.


So Rossi walks into Stoner's garage wearing his helmet and with cameras
in tow, and Casey has to adjust the interaction knowing that it will all
be out there for the world to see, and in the public's democratic
opinion you simply don't win any ****ing match with Vale, by definition.
Compare that to Pedrosa going to Hayden's motorhome at Estoril in 2006,
just in street clothes, and taking his verbal whipping like a man(-boy).
I think Casey just wanted to have that discussion on a man-to-man basis,
just between them, where he could say what he wanted and not have it
thrown back in his face by a biased press for months or years to come
(remember Laguna '08?), and instead he got the Valentino Rossi Show. And
I don't think there's much more to it than that.

Sack up next time, Vale - as Biaggi might have said, this isn't
performance art...
 
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pablo
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      04-11-2011, 05:40 AM
On Apr 8, 7:54*am, Mark N <menusbaumNYETS...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> One could say none of the guys on the podium should have been where they
> were


true, but then again racing -like almost any success in life- always
involves some luck on top. it's always conveniently forgotten after
the fact.

> ... had Silli, Rossi and Casey not all crashed....


but they did. and, except for Stoner, they did because they made
mistakes.

> ... Pedrosa ...


his race was strange. falling behind. coming back. slowing down.

> ... Spies shows how bad the situation was ...


arguably they should have shortened the race.

> ... Pedrosa totally dodged
> a bullet on his way to better shoulder/arm health


i somehow doubt Pedrosa will do any better after the surgery. it's
always some other reason. it's clear Stoner is faster on the Honda,
period.

> could be a very critical moment in the championship


i hope not. the only big loser points wise was Stoner. he was riding
like he deserved a load of them and missed them through no fault of
his own (unlike everybody else that went down). on the other hand he's
been riding like he is the top championship favorite, so perhaps this
will help not make the season too one-sided after the first 4 or 5
races...

and if Rossi does that again, he deserves a heavy penalty.
 
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Mark N
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      04-13-2011, 08:13 PM
pablo wrote:
> Mark N wrote:
> > ... Pedrosa ...

>
> his race was strange. falling behind. coming back. slowing down.
>
> > ... Spies shows how bad the situation was ...

>
> arguably they should have shortened the race.
>
> > ... Pedrosa totally dodged
> > a bullet on his way to better shoulder/arm health

>
> i somehow doubt Pedrosa will do any better after the surgery. it's
> always some other reason. it's clear Stoner is faster on the Honda,
> period.
>
> > could be a very critical moment in the championship

>
> i hope not. the only big loser points wise was Stoner. he was riding
> like he deserved a load of them and missed them through no fault of
> his own (unlike everybody else that went down). on the other hand he's
> been riding like he is the top championship favorite, so perhaps this
> will help not make the season too one-sided after the first 4 or 5
> races...


This race reminded me so much of Donington '09, then guys on slicks on
a too-wet track, this time on rains on a too-dry track, both because
of relatively recent rules construction regarding tires. Over the
course of both races the pace fell off by about 10 seconds, as the
tire and track conditions from the mismatch worsened. There were lots
of crashers in both races, Stoner's races were disasters, and Rossi
crashed in both only to pick it up and finish in 5th both times. For
Lorenzo and Pedrosa this was a different deal, though, as Jorge
crashed out last time while leading, and this time he let the race
come to him and won. Pedrosa started out much like '09, falling down
through the field as if his bike was stuck in reverse, but this time
somehow that channged, and, unlike Lorenzo, I'm not so certain it's
because he's gotten better in the wet or selected a better strategy.

The winning strategy was Lorenzo's, which was to go into the lead at
the start and then quickly back off, the track not being wet enough
for the soft tires. So he posted his fastest lap and all his fastest
section times on lap 2 and then slowed immediately. The one other
rider to do that was Stoner, which suggests his thinking was the same
and perhaps the outcome would have been similar had he not been taken
out by Rossi. The other fast guys who ended up in the dirt or with
shot tires all posted fast laps and sections later, although that kind
of speed was over quickly in this race, with no one posting a race
fast lap after lap 5 (Pedrosa and Hayden) or a fast section time after
lap 7 (Aoyama; Nick had two on lap 6). And I suspect that cost all
these guys on tire and grip. From then on it was about how quickly
guys slowed, and Lorenzo managed that the best. After his bad opening
laps Pedrosa continued to close on Lorenzo until lap 15, when the
margin was down to 1.2 second, but Jorge pretty quickly pulled away
after that, maintaining his pace much better than Dani, who had to
give up a spot to Spies before having that gifted back. Dani's tire
was clearly in better shape than the others in parc ferme, with
visible tread remaining. So I don't see much more than giood fortune
getting him to 2nd, with his machine or his style or perhaps-tentative
rain riding or lighter weight wearing his tire less, his backing off
to save rubber later into the race (if at all), and his inability to
stay with JL in the 2nd half of the race on what looked like a better
tire.

In any case, I'm also not sure that I like rules which end up with
these guys doing a whole race in a situation like that, or the one at
Donington in '09.

> and if Rossi does that again, he deserves a heavy penalty.


Yes, but we won't see ever see that, will we? We haven't seen it yet,
and Rossi has done MUCH worse...
 
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