Mark N <(E-Mail Removed)> Wed, 20 May 2009 10:23:12
>Of course you just view it from the perspective that an American on a
>Japanese bike winning some races must mean he's got the best bike...

Or you can view it that the two best riders in the paddock on the two
best bikes in the paddock are very equal when chance doesn't get in the
way. And just behind them there are 3 other marques who are only
fractions off the pace. So whatever you think of the rules, they are
actually working. Yes it is artificial, and it may even be unfair. But
the reason Haga has a big points lead isn't because Ducati have an
unfair advantage. It's because Yamaha Italia are screwing up and Spies
is having more than his fair share of bad luck.

--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
10 Items Or Less

On Wed, 20 May 2009 07:41:48 -0700, "Mark N"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Definitely better than seeing one dominant rider for sure. But even this
>race reinforced the notion that there are only five guys with any chance of
>winning or maybe even getting on the podium (if it doesn't rain),

How many seasons from the past (especially the 'classic' era from the
80s) featured five riders who could win or get on the podium. I
recall the seasons from the late 80s pretty well, and even then a race
with 4 contenders (Gardner, Lawson, Sarron and Schwantz, 1988, Paul
Ricard) was considered exceptional.

> and those runners are all EuroMeds - Rossi, Pedrosa, Lorenzo, Ducati, Dovizioso

You carefully say 'Ducati' rather than 'Stoner' cos otherwise it
doesn't fit your 'Euromed' stereotype, despite the fact that only an
Australian can make the Ducati work. So, tell me - how European is
Stoner?

--
Champ

ZX10R (road), ZX10R (race; breaking), GPz750 turbo (classic) Hayabusa (touring)
To email me, neal at my domain should work.

On Wed, 20 May 2009 10:23:12 -0700 (PDT), Mark N
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Spies has had very bad luck,
>but that's hardly the entire issue. However you play it, Ducati is
>dominating this championship, as they have so many others.
<snippage>
>So basically the FIM rule says the bookends on parity are Ducati
>leading the championship by nearly a hundred points, having the
>majorty of the wins and the top two riders in points, and Ducati
>trailing in the championship by about ten points, also having the
>rider 3rd in points, and having won a third of the races. More than
>the former and they have to put on weight, less than the latter and
>they get to take off weight. Even though five of the six fours
>manufacturers haven't won a race or have anyone in the top three in
>points.

I wouldn't argue much against your notion that the variable weight
rule works in Ducati's favor, it certainly does. But are the bikes
really that dominant? To me, Monza is a good place to compare
outright power between the machines. The Ducati's didn't have
anything on the Yamaha. There wasn't too many draft passes between
the top three. It's also believed that the Suzuki should have had the
speed to be right there with them, and Max N. might have been if not
for the bad luck.

However, one thing that does strike me while watching every race this
year... Spies has to ride the crap out of the Yamaha to stay on equal
terms with the Ducati while Haga looks like he's cruising around.
It's almost identical to the last two years where Haga was clearly
riding the crap out of the Yamaha to keep up with Bayliss. In this
regard the Ducati does seem to have a distinct advantage. I'm just
not clear on what the advantage is, though. Not power it would seem.
Not handling supposedly. Not tire management. Actually, handling on
the Yamaha might be more of a problem than they're letting on. Ben
seems to be hitting a lot of sloppy apex's this year. He's frequently
a foot or two wider than he ought to be and not hitting the same marks
lap after lap. He also appears to be having trouble driving out of
certain types of corners.

So, the factory Ducati's seem to have an advantage but it's not a huge
one, or they simply have the best team, the best factory support, and
one of the best riders at all times. I'd say it's a little from
column A and a little from column B.

Champ <(E-Mail Removed)> Wed, 20 May 2009 23:09:17
>You carefully say 'Ducati' rather than 'Stoner' cos otherwise it
>doesn't fit your 'Euromed' stereotype, despite the fact that only an
>Australian can make the Ducati work. So, tell me - how European is
>Stoner?

He's a Brit isn't he? Since his first break was in the Brit 125GP
championship. Except we hate him for not telling the Donington crowd to
FOAD and going off and whining instead. I'm so confused. Do we support
"Tiny Tears" or not?

--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
10 Items Or Less

On Thu, 21 May 2009 09:21:32 +0100, Champ <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote in <(E-Mail Removed)>:
> On Thu, 21 May 2009 07:20:24 +0100, Julian Bond
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>>Champ <(E-Mail Removed)> Wed, 20 May 2009 23:09:17
>>>You carefully say 'Ducati' rather than 'Stoner' cos otherwise it
>>>doesn't fit your 'Euromed' stereotype, despite the fact that only an
>>>Australian can make the Ducati work. So, tell me - how European is
>>>Stoner?

>>He's a Brit isn't he? Since his first break was in the Brit 125GP
>>championship.

> heh. Quite so. My claim to fame is that a friend beat Stoner in a
> club race when he was first over here (Stoner would have been about
> 15). And I've beaten my friend. Which makes me faster than Stoner
>:-)

>>Except we hate him for not telling the Donington crowd to
>>FOAD and going off and whining instead. I'm so confused. Do we support
>>"Tiny Tears" or not?

> He's never the guy I want to win, I'm afraid. Difficult to say why,
> but if pressed I'd say it's cos he seems to whine and moan a lot.

Bloody whinging Pom!

--
Ivan Reid, School of Engineering & Design, _____________ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. Ivan.Reid@[brunel.ac.uk|cern.ch] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
GSX600F, RG250WD "You Porsche. Me pass!" DoD #484 JKLO#003, 005
WP7# 3000 LC Unit #2368 (tinlc) UKMC#00009 BOTAFOT#16 UKRMMA#7 (Hon)
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".

On Wed, 20 May 2009 03:21:17 GMT, "Mark N"
<(E-Mail Removed)> allegedly wrote:

> because Rossi is Rossi, and he gets
> away with anything, just as he did at Philip Island in '06 and at
> Jerez in '05, and...

Yeah, like he got away with speeding in pit lane.

Oh, wait...

Champ brags:

> My claim to fame is that a friend beat Stoner in a
> club race when he was first over here (Stoner would have been about
> 15). And I've beaten my friend. Which makes me faster than Stoner
> :-)

By the same argument, I'm faster than Spencer. And I actually
*did* beat Schwantz once. Sorta. My endurance team beat his
anyway.

I like the way this is going. I beat Polen. I beat Wes Cooley.
I beat Tom Kipp. Dang! I'm much faster then now than I was then.


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.

sturd <(E-Mail Removed)> Thu, 21 May 2009 06:56:20
>I like the way this is going. I beat Polen. I beat Wes Cooley.
>I beat Tom Kipp. Dang! I'm much faster then now than I was then.

Isn't that true for everyone? The older I get, the faster I was.

--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
Makes 6-8 Sandwiches

On May 21, 7:47*am, "Mark N" <menusbaumNYETS...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> "Julian Bond" wrote
> ..
>
> Well, that's a nice, convenient way to look at it. ... Haga ... Spies...

I happen to think it is a far more kind asssessment of Spies' skills
to say he is afflicted by bad luck, rather than he is a hothead who's
only choice is to crash an inferior bike rather than come in second or
third at a distance.

....pablo