Well not a great race but interesting to watch. And a masterful race
from Ben's Pies. 2 out of 3 is a great start for him. It's beginning to
shape up like Edwards-Bayliss except this time it's Spies-Haga. It's
going to be a long old battle.

That Aprilia is *fast*. Really good to see them get their first podium.

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Cracking WSS race again. Nothing much to choose between Laverty, Pitt,
Sofuoglu and Crutchlow. Amazing to see the Parkalgar Honda be faster
than the Ten Kate Hondas. Perfect high corner speed in the last turn
and a drag past Pitt for Laverty's first win.
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I see their serving rocket fuel over at Ben's Pies. Getting the full
house of Superpole, fastest lap and the double win is pretty damn
impressive. Perhaps more impressive is just how he got those wins. Once
he hit the front with some safe and opportunistic passes and took off,
nobody had any answer.

Inevitably the Brit commentators were all saying "wait till we get to
the Euro circuits (that suit the Ducati more)" but I suspect Spies and
the Yamaha will be just as dominant there as well.

So is the Yamaha R1 as good as everyone is saying it is and Haga should
be kicking himself for switching just as they produce a bike that is a
real winner? And/or is Spies really as exceptional as promised? Or both?

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On Mar 15, 7:30*am, Julian Bond <julian_b...@voidstar.com> wrote:

> So is the Yamaha R1 as good as everyone is saying it is and Haga should
> be kicking himself for switching just as they produce a bike that is a
> real winner? And/or is Spies really as exceptional as promised? Or both?

I suspect its a bit of both. Ben is very, very good but if you look
at Sykes' results, I think that indicates Yamaha has produced one hell
of a bike. I'm not trying to take anything away from Sykes, but when
you compare how he finished in BSB against Haslam, Byrn, etc who are
in WSB now, he seems to have jumped up a notch or two.

This week's MCN compares the R1, Blade, GSXR, ZX10 and 1098. The
Yamaha ate the rest of them for breakfast in track testing despite
being the least powerful of the inline fours and having the least
amount of torque of all the bikes (I think. I'm going from memory.).

-Dirt-

On 2009-03-15 03:30:09 -0400, Julian Bond <(E-Mail Removed)> said:

> I see their serving rocket fuel over at Ben's Pies. Getting the full
> house of Superpole, fastest lap and the double win is pretty damn
> impressive. Perhaps more impressive is just how he got those wins.

3 days after seeing the circuit for the first time? Pretty damn
impressive I'd say..

> Once he hit the front with some safe and opportunistic passes and
> took off, nobody had any answer.

We've been seeing him do that for years now, though usually there was 2
of them that vaporized..
>
> Inevitably the Brit commentators were all saying "wait till we get to
> the Euro circuits (that suit the Ducati more)" but I suspect Spies and
> the Yamaha will be just as dominant there as well.

I dunno, the Yam looked a little down on the straight compared to the
V-4 and the Duc..
>
> So is the Yamaha R1 as good as everyone is saying it is and Haga should
> be kicking himself for switching just as they produce a bike that is a
> real winner? And/or is Spies really as exceptional as promised? Or both?

let's review, Haga dumps Yam and inherits The Bayliss throne, new guy
takes Haga's ride and rips the field. Remarkable, extraordinary,
exceptional, ayup, sounds about right and sounds familiar too...

On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 09:38:17 -0400, T3 <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On 2009-03-15 03:30:09 -0400, Julian Bond <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>
>> I see their serving rocket fuel over at Ben's Pies.
>
>I dunno, the Yam looked a little down on the straight compared to the
>V-4 and the Duc..

I agree. Spies was unable to even pull up on Haga and Biaggi down the
straight even with a double draft. I don't know if they were running
out of revs or running low on HP. Spies did say he was slow getting
out of the last corner so maybe it was just him.

That Aprilia was damn fast though! Their accomplishment shouldn't be
overlooked either.


>> So is the Yamaha R1 as good as everyone is saying it is and Haga should
>> be kicking himself for switching just as they produce a bike that is a
>> real winner? And/or is Spies really as exceptional as promised? Or both?
>
>let's review, Haga dumps Yam and inherits The Bayliss throne, new guy
>takes Haga's ride and rips the field. Remarkable, extraordinary,
>exceptional, ayup, sounds about right and sounds familiar too...
>

It is extraordinary. However, to be fair to Haga this definitely
isn't the bike he was riding the past couple years. On the other
hand, the bike he has now should be at *least* as good as Bayliss'.
He ought to be doing as well as Troy did. Funny how everyone talks
about Haga like he's sucking ass but in fact he is leading the
championship!

If I have one complaint about Spies, it's that he has the personality
of a rock. He also needs to loosen up a bit in the interviews. In
the AMA the Speed TV crew always asked inane questions and expected
the same canned answers. In WSBK they usually give a little more than
just, "it was good. I put my head down and we got there in the end."

Dave <(E-Mail Removed)> Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:16:17
>I agree. Spies was unable to even pull up on Haga and Biaggi down the
>straight even with a double draft. I don't know if they were running
>out of revs or running low on HP.

And yet that was what he did to pass both of them. However, you're
right, on most laps he was a little down on top end.

>Spies did say he was slow getting
>out of the last corner so maybe it was just him.

That seems to be the key to the straight at Qatar. And was Laverty's
real strength that got him the win in WSS. It could also mean that
Yamaha haven't got the traction control on the new motor completely
sorted yet.

>That Aprilia was damn fast though! Their accomplishment shouldn't be
>overlooked either.

Yes, indeedy.

>It is extraordinary. However, to be fair to Haga this definitely
>isn't the bike he was riding the past couple years. On the other
>hand, the bike he has now should be at *least* as good as Bayliss'.
>He ought to be doing as well as Troy did. Funny how everyone talks
>about Haga like he's sucking ass but in fact he is leading the
>championship!

I don't think the Ducati is Haga's bike yet. It's still Bayliss' bike.
Haga really only made a couple of his signature moves (to pass Biaggi)
and his front tyre was shot at the end of the first race. But equally I
don't think he's riding the traction control the way Bayliss did.

One thing I noticed was that all the front runners seemed to be having
trouble with the back end during hard changes of direction. Like the
suspension was topping out and/or the slipper clutch needed work.
Perhaps this is all just a Qatar thing in which case expect Haga to get
faster and faster as we move to "Ducati" tracks and he morphs the Ducati
into a bike that suits his riding style better.

>If I have one complaint about Spies, it's that he has the personality
>of a rock. He also needs to loosen up a bit in the interviews.

It's not so bad, at least he smiles. But you're right, this is not a
Haga or Edwards. On the others, I'm always surprised by how much Biaggi
wants to talk. He seems to be genuinely enjoying himself this year.
Let's hope it lasts.

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On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:39:47 +0000, Julian Bond
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Dave <(E-Mail Removed)> Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:16:17
>>If I have one complaint about Spies, it's that he has the personality
>>of a rock. He also needs to loosen up a bit in the interviews.
>
>It's not so bad, at least he smiles. But you're right, this is not a
>Haga or Edwards. On the others, I'm always surprised by how much Biaggi
>wants to talk. He seems to be genuinely enjoying himself this year.
>Let's hope it lasts.

Or my personal favorite...Hodgson. I always liked his interviews when
he was with WSBK.

So far Spies is just giving his canned answers. You probably don't
notice it becuase you've only seen him three times thusfar. By
mid-season it'll be obvious.

The whole move to Superbike seems to have done wonders for Biaggi's
personal disposition. He's looked a lot more relaxed and happy ever
since he arrived, but you're right that it's even more noticeable this
year.

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:52:27 +0000, Champ <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:24:31 -0700, Mark N
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Julian Bond wrote:
>>
>>> I don't think the Ducati is Haga's bike yet.
>
>The key thing about the Ducati is that it's long, and this is dictated
>by the engine layout. This in turn will make it harder for them to
>get the weight over the front wheel the way Haga likes it, so I'm not
>convinced the Duke is for him.

I'd be more concerned about Haga and the Ducati if he hadn't already
won a handful of races on the Renegade Ducati a few years ago. He
proved then that he was capable of riding one with success.

Dave <(E-Mail Removed)> Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:11:00
>I'd be more concerned about Haga and the Ducati if he hadn't already
>won a handful of races on the Renegade Ducati a few years ago. He
>proved then that he was capable of riding one with success.

There's a lot of guesswork and perceived wisdom in all this.
- Haga has always taken strange lines and has a reputation for turning
inside other people on seemingly impossibly tight lines
- Everyone who has ever tested Haga's bikes comments on how front endy
they are.
- Ducati had some problems with the 999 getting the weight distribution
right. To the point where Xaus had the wheel so far back it was rubbing
(with visible smoke) on the front cylinder head
- Haga's Renegade days were on the 998 That's 2 generations ago
- Bayliss was more about corner exit speed and being abusive with the
traction control. And he lost the front more than once last year
- Every test of the new Yamaha (stock) has said the bike is much more
useable than last year even though it's got less power and torque all
the way through the rev range. To the tune of 1s a lap against stock
ZX10, Blade and GSXR.
- The '08 Yamaha had a a problem with managing tyre wear
- In Philip Island and in Qatar, Sykes turned in some lap times close to
Spies but from a poor start and less consistently.
- Haga's front tyre was completely shot after the first Qatar race.
- Haga was riding much smoother and more neatly last weekend than we've
seen for a while.

There's probably some other data points as well. My guess in all this is
- Spies is an exceptional rider
- The Yamaha is just as fast turning as it was last year, only a little
slower on top speed (relatively) but has more mechanical rear grip and
makes it easier to manage tyre wear
- Haga is also an exceptional rider.
- Corse and Haga haven't yet worked out how to give him his front end
feel while still getting the drive out of corners. But they're getting
there
- Tardozzi has taken in him hand and drilled him in winning the
championship, not individual races
- The Spies Yamaha will get faster and faster as the season progresses
and as they find more power and fine tune it.
- The Haga Ducati will get faster as they close in on the perfect setup
for Haga.

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