http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/...0wchampion.htm
--
Ed Light

Better World News TV Channel:
http://realnews.com

Iraq Veterans Against the War and Related:
http://ivaw.org
http://couragetoresist.org
http://antiwar.com

Send spam to the FTC at
(E-Mail Removed)
Thanks, robots.

Julian Bond wrote:
> Ed Light <(E-Mail Removed)> Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:33:38
>> http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/...0wchampion.htm
>
> Old guy remembers the past with rose coloured specs. Nothing to see
> here, move along.

maybe yes, maybe no.

>
> You can't put the genie back in the bottle.
>
sure you can - they have control tires, no reason they couldn't
limit electronic aids

> Now tell me that watching Casey Stoner riding isn't exciting when the
> Ducati is pumping away like crazy.
>

not really - occasionally an exciting moment her and there but in
general the 800 era has been a giant parade snoozfest.

for another take read a new guys take on Motogp bikes:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Aug/100824m1r1.htm

where he spells it out pretty clearly that it is way more about the bike
and setup than about the rider.

Bruce

Bruce <(E-Mail Removed)> Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:17:52
>sure you can - they have control tires, no reason they couldn't
>limit electronic aids

Not if they keep the 21 litre limit and not without a spec engine. You
can go all round this but you end up in places like the AMA Suzukis
finding a way to do traction control without traction control sensors.
Even a spec ECU doesn't work given the different engine configurations.
Or the situation where the most advanced road bikes have more
electronics than MotoGP.

>where he spells it out pretty clearly that it is way more about the bike
> and setup than about the rider.

And yet the aliens invariably end up at the front.

--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
Always Replace The Cap

"Rossi Echos Roberts Jr."

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Aug/100830anpos.htm

--
Ed Light

Better World News TV Channel:
http://realnews.com

Iraq Veterans Against the War and Related:
http://ivaw.org
http://couragetoresist.org
http://antiwar.com

Send spam to the FTC at
(E-Mail Removed)
Thanks, robots.

Ed Light <(E-Mail Removed)> Mon, 30 Aug 2010 22:31:00
>"Rossi Echos Roberts Jr."
>
>http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Aug/100830anpos.htm

But no suggestion of how to do this.

--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
Close Cover Before Striking

Julian Bond realizes:

> Ed Light <nob...@nobody.there> Mon, 30 Aug 2010 22:31:00
>
> >"Rossi Echos Roberts Jr."
>
> >http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Aug/100830anpos.htm
>
> But no suggestion of how to do this.

What if the FIM required wheel sensors front and rear and a
throttle position sensor and put on their own d/a logger for those
and maybe other data streams? Then post race they could
look at it and see if there was any software (non-humanware)
control going on. Seems like that could be made to work.



Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.

Julian Bond wrote:
> Ed Light <(E-Mail Removed)> Mon, 30 Aug 2010 22:31:00
>> "Rossi Echos Roberts Jr."
>>
>> http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Aug/100830anpos.htm
>
> But no suggestion of how to do this.
>

that's a different question, the initial step is to recognize the
problem, which you were in denial of (just and old loser griping)
but now that the GOAT has spoken you accept and/or ignore that issue
and move on to enforcement.

the rules will need to be carefully made as to not make things worse
but something needs to be done.

Look at this weekends race - even though aspects are cool - spieas
getting pole and a podium, rossi doing well even after numerous practice
creashes etc. the race it self was BORING with a capital "B"

a nice spaced out parade, only passing was the opening few laps as
the ones with a faster pace made passes and then zoomed of - no real
dicing or great moves, just motoring on by.

Bruce

Bruce <(E-Mail Removed)> Tue, 31 Aug 2010 17:28:56
>Julian Bond wrote:
>> Ed Light <(E-Mail Removed)> Mon, 30 Aug 2010 22:31:00
>>> "Rossi Echos Roberts Jr."
>>>
>>> http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Aug/100830anpos.htm
>> But no suggestion of how to do this.
>
>that's a different question, the initial step is to recognize the
>problem, which you were in denial of (just and old loser griping)
>but now that the GOAT has spoken you accept and/or ignore that issue
>and move on to enforcement.
>
>the rules will need to be carefully made as to not make things worse
>but something needs to be done.
>
>Look at this weekends race - even though aspects are cool - spieas
>getting pole and a podium, rossi doing well even after numerous practice
>creashes etc. the race it self was BORING with a capital "B"

Yes, the race was boring. Yes, *something needs to be done*. And even
the GOAT is turning into an old loser griping[1]!

But until somebody comes up with a viable alternative it's still just
wishful thinking.

Increasing the capacity while retaining the same fuel limit is going to
make electronics even more important and the problems of getting a
smooth and rideable power curve even harder. With the proposed rules, I
can't see any reason why 1000s will be any slower in the corner or the
racing any better. There's still going to be one perfect line and 4-6
riders who can ride that perfect line for 45 minutes.

[1]Here's a question for you. Will Rossi ever win another race?

--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
Your Work Email May Be Monitored

Julian Bond wrote:
> Bruce <(E-Mail Removed)> Tue, 31 Aug 2010 17:28:56
>> Julian Bond wrote:
>>> Ed Light <(E-Mail Removed)> Mon, 30 Aug 2010 22:31:00
>>>> "Rossi Echos Roberts Jr."
>>>>
>>>> http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Aug/100830anpos.htm
>>> But no suggestion of how to do this.
>>
>> that's a different question, the initial step is to recognize the
>> problem, which you were in denial of (just and old loser griping)
>> but now that the GOAT has spoken you accept and/or ignore that issue
>> and move on to enforcement.
>>
>> the rules will need to be carefully made as to not make things worse
>> but something needs to be done.
>>
>> Look at this weekends race - even though aspects are cool - spieas
>> getting pole and a podium, rossi doing well even after numerous practice
>> creashes etc. the race it self was BORING with a capital "B"
>
> Yes, the race was boring. Yes, *something needs to be done*. And even
> the GOAT is turning into an old loser griping[1]!
>

> But until somebody comes up with a viable alternative it's still just
> wishful thinking.

true, but thinking and discussions can be fun

>
> Increasing the capacity while retaining the same fuel limit is going to
> make electronics even more important and the problems of getting a
> smooth and rideable power curve even harder. With the proposed rules, I
> can't see any reason why 1000s will be any slower in the corner or the
> racing any better. There's still going to be one perfect line and 4-6
> riders who can ride that perfect line for 45 minutes.
>

i think the fuel limits are nonsense

as for other things, I like the idea mike had about having standard
sensors/ data loggers that can detect shenanigans.

> [1]Here's a question for you. Will Rossi ever win another race?
>

I think so, but not as much as a would have a few weeks ago.

Bruce

Mark N <(E-Mail Removed)> Wed, 1 Sep 2010 07:18:10
>I don't agree with your conclusion at all, though. 1000s will roll
>differently than 8000s on the track, just as the 800s were immediately
>different that 990s when they showed up in 06-07. That's the impact of
>motor physics.

And I think you're ignoring 5-6 years of development in tyres,
electronics, engines. The fastest way round the track in 2012 will be
2011, 800cc style cornering speed with 1000 style top end. Unless
something changes in the rules, I just can't see anyone giving up
cornering speed and corner entry speed when they can't get the extra
power down on the exit. It's not about physics, its about development.

>And those changes can mean the bikes can be raced differently in
>battle, especially with more fuel - I don't think a 1000 with 24 liters
>will just race around on the perfect 250 line as the 800s do, the
>excess of power will allow for differences and more creativity, and it
>may even be best to allow the riders more control of the machine to
>apply that.

Well the proposed rules as they are today it's 21 Litres for 1000cc
prototypes. The CRTs will be allowed 24 litres, but nobody yet knows
what a CRT team is or even if there will be any.

--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
Shampoo, Rinse, Repeat