I've been riding around on an '85 Dnepr MT-11 with sidecar.
The thing is a rolling Soviet derelict but somehow it
keeps on rolling. It's actually so funky that it's highly
entertaining to ride (and show off). I don't really have
the means to restore or maintain a truly classic vintage bike
so this is probably the closest I'll get. The bike has only
4500 km on it (it's a long story).

However, I have a line on an '05 Ural Patrol with 5k Km, which
I've test ridden. The seller is asking Cdn $8000 (£4,925) although
she says she'll take less. There's a problem with the front end
which I think is easily fixable (probably too much torque on
the steering tensioner nut.) With some negotiation I might get it
for $7000 (£4,310).

Should I buy it?

I've been thinking hard to sort the complex pros and cons
to the question. Here's what I've managed to put into words so far:

-----YES:

1. Electric start, which the Dnepr doesn't have. Kick starting it
hurts my lower back. I have been starting it cold in the mornings
by rolling it down a grade and bumping it in 2nd. However, this
method wouldn't work if there weren't good traction due to ice
or snow on the road.

2. 2WD. The sidecar wheel is powered by a shaft from the rear hub.
The Dnepr is only 1WD. The point here is that a strong La Nina is
forecast, expected to bring us (in Vancouver, Canada) unusually cold
and wet weather. We've already had a bit of snow and freezing daytime
temperatures, unusual for November. If there's going to be a lot
of snow this winter, worse than '08/'09 which was a "mild" La Nina,
the 2WD would help a lot.

3. It's newer and runs better. By comparison it makes the Dnepr
feel like something built at the Dzerzhinsky Tractor Factory in
pre-WW2 Stalingrad.

4. My g/f won't ride pillion; that's why I got a hack rig.
But the Dnepr motor is a cranky, inefficient 650cc and barely climbs
steep hills with both of us on board. The Ural is an '05 with 750cc.

4a. She doesn't really like riding the hack in traffic, either.
She'd rather be in a cage (where she feels safer). However, she is
willing (in principle) to go off-pavement on trails and logging roads.
All this means we'd have to trailer the rig to those locations,
which means keeping the car (negating 6, below).

5. The Dnepr's top speed is about 45 mph, above which the motor
threatens to detonate. The Ural should do about 65 mph max with
a cruising speed of 60, which is all I want.

6. Insurance is about 1/2 that of a car. We could sell the car and
get around with only the bike. BTW we're both retired, although not
voluntarily -- that is to say, we were thrust, protesting and
tantrum-throwing into it.

-----MAYBE:

1. Do I really want to ride a motorcycle in winter? I went
for a few miles today on the Dnepr to find out. It was about
2 degrees C (36 F) and it felt ****ing awful cold, even at city
speed (50 kph). And it wasn't even raining, which it does
here a lot in winter. I'm really not looking forward to going
out on cold, blustery winter nights in the pouring, driving rain
to buy groceries. (However, I know a Brit around here who does
precisely that. He's got a Honda 400 with a boxy sidehack
he brought over from England and he's got electrically heated
snowmobile hand muffs over the grips so he can ride bare handed
in any kind of weather.)

-----NO:

1. The Dnepr cost me half of the $7k that I might pay for the Ural.

2. I don't really need the Ural. I'd be more comfortable running
errands in the car during the winter. The Dnepr is fine for most
of the year. It's not worth dropping an extra $3500 just to handle
short intervals of snow in winter. (Or is it?)

3. I might have a hard time selling the Dnepr to help finance
the Ural. I've already got a small fleet of hack rigs; if I
lined them up it would look like a scene from Operation Barbarossa.

----SUMMARY:

The extra money would buy me 2WD, electric start, more displacement,
newer technology, better build quality, more reliability, a lighter
frame, windshields on both the bike and the hack, better support
(the local dealer won't even look at a Dnepr), higher top speed,
a leading link front end (ie, lighter and more nimble steering)
(once it's fixed) and a bike that would likely be in rideable
condition for a longer time. Hmmm, that seems like a lot more than
mere marginal returns.

Any opinions appreciated.
SQ

sean_q <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> However, I have a line on an '05 Ural Patrol with 5k Km, which
> I've test ridden. The seller is asking Cdn $8000 (£4,925) although
> she says she'll take less. There's a problem with the front end
> which I think is easily fixable (probably too much torque on
> the steering tensioner nut.) With some negotiation I might get it
> for $7000 (£4,310).
>
> Should I buy it?

First take a very close look at the front end for accident damage
to the forks, it could just be something simple but OTOH......

Sounds like you have convinced yourself already.
A boy can never have too many toys.

--
03 GS500K2
78 Honda 400/4 in black
98 Yamaha YP250 Majesty

On Nov 22, 3:41*am, sean_q <no.s...@no.spam> wrote:
> I've been riding around on an '85 Dnepr MT-11 with sidecar.
> The thing is a rolling Soviet derelict but somehow it
> keeps on rolling. It's actually so funky that it's highly
> entertaining to ride (and show off). I don't really have
> the means to restore or maintain a truly classic vintage bike
> so this is probably the closest I'll get. The bike has only
> 4500 km on it (it's a long story).
>
> However, I have a line on an '05 Ural Patrol with 5k Km, which
> I've test ridden. The seller is asking Cdn $8000 (£4,925) although
> she says she'll take less. There's a problem with the front end
> which I think is easily fixable (probably too much torque on
> the steering tensioner nut.) With some negotiation I might get it
> for $7000 (£4,310).
>
> Should I buy it?

<schneep>

> The extra money would buy me 2WD, electric start, more displacement,
> newer technology, better build quality, more reliability, a lighter
> frame, windshields on both the bike and the hack, better support
> (the local dealer won't even look at a Dnepr), higher top speed,
> a leading link front end (ie, lighter and more nimble steering)
> (once it's fixed) and a bike that would likely be in rideable
> condition for a longer time. Hmmm, that seems like a lot more than
> mere marginal returns.

New Urals have become a lot more expensive in the UK of late. I
believe this is in part due to new emission standards here.

I had a Dnepr which was usually easy first-kick starting. The
kickstart lever is bastard awkward to get at - although this was on an
outfit with a lefthand chair, and the electric-start Urals were much
easier. The compression on my Dnepr seemed very low, and I could just
about start it by hand.

2WD is really only of use in snow or seriously boggy going, but it can
be very effective in those conditions. Having it means you're tempted
into conditions you really shouldn't be messing around with. If you
can't make progress on a 1WD outfit with an off-road tyre, then you
really need to examine your motivations there.

The Dnepr /was/ built at the Dzerzhinsky Tractor Factory in pre-WW2
Stalingrad.

Don't include your girlfriend's preferences in your calculations.
I've gone through successions of increasingly plush lardy tourers to
appease my (now ex-) wife. This way lies misery. Get what /you/
want.

Speedwise for Dneprs: I could keep up with HGVs on the motorway, which
run around the 55mph mark. It tended to be a bit thirsty at these
extreme velocities, and burn a lot of oil, but never gave the
impression that it was going to explode.

Speedwise for Urals:

https://groups.google.com/group/uk.r...6b6e0602?hl=en

You can be perfectly comfortable in winter conditions. Wear the
proper kit. See references to Elefantentreffen on ukrm. You should
also be able to cheaply obtain snowmobile suits.

Unless you're having to fight a winter war, Urals and Dneprs are about
having fun in the snow, not running errands. Don't sell the car.
Your girlfriend will hate that. Use the car when it's **** and
miserable, and the outfit when it's crisp and cloudless blue skies and
brilliant sunshine and dazzling white snow.

Generally the approach with these outfits is to have a proper offroad
tyre on the spare wheel, and swap it to the rear when the going gets
interesting.

My feeling, overall, is that you don't need another outfit, nice
though it is, and you shouldn't get rid of the car for domestic
reasons. Your Dnepr should be really easy to start, though - it
sounds like you should review your technique and possible
serviceability issues.

sean_q wrote:
/snip/

> However, I have a line on an '05 Ural Patrol with 5k Km, which
> I've test ridden. The seller is asking Cdn $8000 (£4,925) although
> she says she'll take less. There's a problem with the front end
> which I think is easily fixable (probably too much torque on
> the steering tensioner nut.) With some negotiation I might get it
> for $7000 (£4,310).

Sounds a bit dear to me.

Look out for an old Panther - 600cc sloping single cylinder - will go
for ever.

> Should I buy it?

Can you afford it?

> I've been thinking hard to sort the complex pros and cons
> to the question. Here's what I've managed to put into words so far:
>
> -----YES:
>
> 1. Electric start, which the Dnepr doesn't have. Kick starting it
> hurts my lower back. I have been starting it cold in the mornings
> by rolling it down a grade and bumping it in 2nd. However, this
> method wouldn't work if there weren't good traction due to ice
> or snow on the road.

Reasonable point.

> 2. 2WD. The sidecar wheel is powered by a shaft from the rear hub.
> The Dnepr is only 1WD. The point here is that a strong La Nina is
> forecast, expected to bring us (in Vancouver, Canada) unusually cold
> and wet weather. We've already had a bit of snow and freezing daytime
> temperatures, unusual for November. If there's going to be a lot
> of snow this winter, worse than '08/'09 which was a "mild" La Nina,
> the 2WD would help a lot.

Better point

> 3. It's newer and runs better. By comparison it makes the Dnepr
> feel like something built at the Dzerzhinsky Tractor Factory in
> pre-WW2 Stalingrad.

That's half the fun, isn't i? (Don't answer that question...)

> 4. My g/f won't ride pillion; that's why I got a hack rig.
> But the Dnepr motor is a cranky, inefficient 650cc and barely climbs
> steep hills with both of us on board. The Ural is an '05 with 750cc.

Thanks for the warning! My first proper bike was a 1941 G3 Matchless, on
which I hung a Swallow chair. It would go anywhere 3-up, and often did.

That was 350cc...

> 4a. She doesn't really like riding the hack in traffic, either.
> She'd rather be in a cage (where she feels safer). However, she is
> willing (in principle) to go off-pavement on trails and logging roads.
> All this means we'd have to trailer the rig to those locations,
> which means keeping the car (negating 6, below).

Blindfold her? Earmuffs? Gag?

> 5. The Dnepr's top speed is about 45 mph, above which the motor
> threatens to detonate. The Ural should do about 65 mph max with
> a cruising speed of 60, which is all I want.

I could get 65 - 70 mph out of the Matchbox...

> 6. Insurance is about 1/2 that of a car. We could sell the car and
> get around with only the bike. BTW we're both retired, although not
> voluntarily -- that is to say, we were thrust, protesting and
> tantrum-throwing into it.

But if she won't travel in it?

> -----MAYBE:
>
> -----NO:
>
> 1. The Dnepr cost me half of the $7k that I might pay for the Ural.

IMO you paid a hell of a lot too much for it then.

> 2. I don't really need the Ural. I'd be more comfortable running
> errands in the car during the winter. The Dnepr is fine for most
> of the year. It's not worth dropping an extra $3500 just to handle
> short intervals of snow in winter. (Or is it?)

A lot of people these days are fair-weather bikers, If you can afford to
run the bike and the car, why not?

> 3. I might have a hard time selling the Dnepr to help finance
> the Ural.

'Might' seems to me to be an understatement.

> I've already got a small fleet of hack rigs; if I
> lined them up it would look like a scene from Operation Barbarossa.
>
> ----SUMMARY:
>
> The extra money would buy me 2WD, electric start, more displacement,
> newer technology, better build quality, more reliability, a lighter
> frame, windshields on both the bike and the hack, better support
> (the local dealer won't even look at a Dnepr),

Are you surprised?

> higher top speed,
> a leading link front end (ie, lighter and more nimble steering)
> (once it's fixed) and a bike that would likely be in rideable
> condition for a longer time. Hmmm, that seems like a lot more than
> mere marginal returns.

The short leading-link is a big plus. The grasstrack comlot boys used to
cut-down Douglas forks in days of yore.

--
Rusty

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:

> Sounds like you have convinced yourself already.
> A boy can never have too many toys.

Ding-a-ling!

--
Rusty

On 11/22/2010 3:27 AM, Rusty Hinge wrote:

>> With some negotiation I might get it for $7000 (£4,310).

> Sounds a bit dear to me.

Bike prices are generally higher here than in the UK, but the economies
are different.

> Look out for an old Panther - 600cc sloping single cylinder - will go
> for ever.

I've never seen one here. This is Harley and Metric country. Anything
else, such as Brit classics are rare, and mostly Triumphs and the odd
BSA and Norton such as the Commando.

Sometimes I wish I could move to the UK. I'd go nuts with all
the vintage bikes around. However, I've also heard that just about
everything is heavily taxed, there's more red tape than here and
the civil servants are Vogons. Also, I currently live at about
the same latitude as the Isles of Scilly. Everywhere else in Britain
is what we would call "up north".

>> 3. I might have a hard time selling the Dnepr to help finance
>> the Ural.
>
> 'Might' seems to me to be an understatement.

I may already have a buyer; someone I met at the Remembrance Day
ceremony. The Dnepr got a lot of attention when I rode it past
the parade line-up.

SQ

sean_q wrote:

> Should I buy it?

No.



--
Simon