Gather 'round, all them as takes an interest, it's history class.

A victory at the Battle of Pavia in 1525 gave Spain a century
of military dominance in Europe, even threatening England
with the Armada of 1588. (Naturally I claim descent from
a shipwrecked Spanish sailor who married a pretty Irish colleen.)

Why were the northwestern European nations, especially France
and England so far behind Spain in becoming colonial powers? [1]

For instance, Britain's first successful American venture,
Jamestown was founded only in 1607, more than a century after
Spain's first New World colony (on Hispaniola, 1493).

One answer is population size, limited by the food supply.
The grain harvest becomes more uncertain the further north
you go. It wasn't until the introduction of potatoes and
fish from the Grand Banks that the northern European
populations began to catch up, some of them becoming world
powers. In fact, fish and chips is still a popular snack
in England.

This graph shows the UK population since 43AD:
http://chartsbin.com/view/28k

Note several sudden downward glitches. The first one, in the Late
Middle Ages is the Black Death (bubonic plague) of the mid-1300's.
The second appears to be WW1. [2]

The Irish population graph shows an even more (sadly) dramatic story:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Po...since_1500.png

"Basque fishermen from Spain used potatoes as ships stores for their
voyages across Atlantic in the 16th century, and introduced the tuber
to western Ireland, where they landed to dry their cod." [wp]

However, over-dependence on one dominant strain of potato rendered
the Irish vulnerable to blight, which struck in 1845. Within mere
weeks it spread throughout the land, turning the staple crop into
inedible mush.

My great-great-to-the-Nth grandparents decided that enough was enough
and booked passage to these fair shores. And so here I be, wafted by
the Winds of Fortune and a humble tuber. I think I'll paint my bike
emerald green with Celtic artwork and a winged potato. Watch for it
if you're ever riding through these parts.

[1] The Tudors seemed to drag their feet on this issue, even
Good Queen Bess (who inherited a fairly weak nation and built it
up into a world power). If 'Enerys VII & VIII been a bit more spry,
Chile and other Latin American countries might be English-speaking
Commonwealth members today and TOG wouldn't have to order his groceries
in Spanish when he emigrates.

[2] Seen in _Punch_ magazine from late in WW1 when a food shortage
was hurting the Germans: a U-boat surfaces near the English coast.
Standing on shore is a large anthropomorphic potato, thumbing its
'nose' at the German.
U-BOAT CAPTAIN: "Gott strafe England!"
POTATO: "Tuber uber Alles!"

Sean P. Quinlan
Vancouver, BC, Canada

Further to my last:

> [2] Seen in _Punch_ magazine from late in WW1

July 11, 1917.

Picture at:
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/10143...images/019.png

Gutenberg archive:
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/10143...-h/10143-h.htm

SQ

On 30/11/10 02:01, sean_q wrote:
> Gather 'round, all them as takes an interest, it's history class.

Thanks for the warning

<marks thread Ignore>
--
Gyp
Another PC, another sig

sean_q <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> . . . I think I'll paint my bike
> emerald green with Celtic artwork and a winged potato. Watch for it
> if you're ever riding through these parts.

If I should hear sounds reminiscent of "potato-potato potato-potato";
would it be your bike approaching?

On 11/30/2010 11:56 AM, ts wrote:

> If I should hear sounds reminiscent of "potato-potato potato-potato";
> would it be your bike approaching?

Heh heh. I had a Harley once, but lost it in the Fiscal Crash of '08.
And I was gonna decorate it with Celtic artwork, too.

SQ

sean_q wrote:
> Gather 'round, all them as takes an interest, it's history class.
>
> A victory at the Battle of Pavia in 1525 gave Spain a century
> of military dominance in Europe, even threatening England
> with the Armada of 1588. (Naturally I claim descent from
> a shipwrecked Spanish sailor who married a pretty Irish colleen.)
>
> Why were the northwestern European nations, especially France
> and England so far behind Spain in becoming colonial powers? [1]

I'll take this a point at a time: it was a lot less effort and a lot
less politically incorrect to plunder the returning Dagos than it was to
plunder the indigenous populations.

> For instance, Britain's first successful American venture,
> Jamestown was founded only in 1607, more than a century after
> Spain's first New World colony (on Hispaniola, 1493).

(Colateral observation - using a dongle to get intertubular access, I am
watching a roe deer foraging around outside in the snow.)

Britain's ships were about the size of inshore fishing-boats, whereas
the Spanish cargo ships were larger than ocean-going trawlers, hence
could carry more materials than the English ones. I use the word
'English' here, because I'm not aware of much Welsh activity unti the
time of Captain Morgan (a rum fellow), and Scotland was a separate
country until early into the seventeenth century. Ireland, IIRC, joined
the merry throng considerably later, and not entirely vuluntarily, it
should be said.

> One answer is population size, limited by the food supply.
> The grain harvest becomes more uncertain the further north
> you go.

In the case of England, this was not so at the time - it was one of the
warm peaks in the cycle of the weather, and sub-tropical fruit was
cultivated outdoors. Vinyards were not uncommon, likewise peaches and
apricots. Citrus fruits were taken indoors over winter though.

AFAIK there was never any problem with grain crops due to cold weather -
wet and wind, certainly, as the shorter varieties of wheat, oats and
barley had not been bred.

> It wasn't until the introduction of potatoes and
> fish from the Grand Banks that the northern European
> populations began to catch up, some of them becoming world
> powers. In fact, fish and chips is still a popular snack
> in England.

Potatoes caught on: fish had never been a problem, and had (on and near
the coast) never been in short supply excpt perhaps during winter
storms, when fish from further asea than inshore waters would have faced
the same weather.

Indeed, very distant and deep-sea fishing was not developed for
centuries because refrigeration was undreamed-of, and the only way of
providing ice was to cut it - in England, from frozen lakes in the
winter, and the blocks stored in semi-underground ice-houses, which were
heavily insulated by straw (mainly). Only the very rich could afford this.

It is not beyond the realms of possibility that ice could have been cut
in Greenland on the outward journey, but, why? the Channel, the North
sea and the eastern edge of the Atlantic were teeming with fish.

> This graph shows the UK population since 43AD:
> http://chartsbin.com/view/28k
>
> Note several sudden downward glitches. The first one, in the Late
> Middle Ages is the Black Death (bubonic plague) of the mid-1300's.
> The second appears to be WW1. [2]
>
> The Irish population graph shows an even more (sadly) dramatic story:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Po...since_1500.png

Ireland's largest export has always been its population. Much of the
land is unsuitable for European agriculture, and it was only with the
advent of the potato that a larger amount of the (peaty) soil could be
exploited.

Then came the blight.

Then more exports.

> "Basque fishermen from Spain used potatoes as ships stores for their
> voyages across Atlantic in the 16th century, and introduced the tuber
> to western Ireland, where they landed to dry their cod." [wp]
>
> However, over-dependence on one dominant strain of potato rendered
> the Irish vulnerable to blight, which struck in 1845. Within mere
> weeks it spread throughout the land, turning the staple crop into
> inedible mush.
>
> My great-great-to-the-Nth grandparents decided that enough was enough
> and booked passage to these fair shores. And so here I be, wafted by
> the Winds of Fortune and a humble tuber. I think I'll paint my bike
> emerald green with Celtic artwork and a winged potato. Watch for it
> if you're ever riding through these parts.

Shades of the Wooller...

--
Rusty

ts wrote:
> sean_q <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> . . . I think I'll paint my bike
>> emerald green with Celtic artwork and a winged potato. Watch for it
>> if you're ever riding through these parts.
>
> If I should hear sounds reminiscent of "potato-potato potato-potato";
> would it be your bike approaching?

Spud-spud-spud-spud rather, with Russian overtones in the rocker-boxen
of vodka-vodka-vodka-vodka...

--
Rusty

sean_q wrote:
> On 11/30/2010 11:56 AM, ts wrote:
>
>> If I should hear sounds reminiscent of "potato-potato potato-potato";
>> would it be your bike approaching?
>
> Heh heh. I had a Harley once, but lost it in the Fiscal Crash of '08.
> And I was gonna decorate it with Celtic artwork, too.

Ugly things. Armchairs with rawhide fringes, on wheels.

It is impossible to decorate one of those slouching lumps with anything
but a total makeover - implanting the engine into a proper frame with
proper cyle-parts.

Even a Featherbed would do at a pinch...

Now, an Egli(type) Harley might be fun.

--
Rusty

On 12/1/2010 6:18 AM, Rusty Hinge wrote:

> I'll take this a point at a time:

Hi Rusty, thanks for your scholarly reply ... I just wanted
to write a spoof based on some garbled info from
the History channel on TV.

> it was a lot less effort and a lot
> less politically incorrect to plunder the returning Dagos than it was to
> plunder the indigenous populations.

Seems to me that political correctness (as we know it today)
didn't much concern folks back in the days of the Atlantic
slave trade and other outrages.

> Indeed, very distant and deep-sea fishing was not developed for
> centuries because refrigeration was undreamed-of...
> Only the very rich could afford this.

However, I thought the very rich (in Tudor times at least)
considered sea food to be too low-class and so developed
iodine deficiencies causing goiter, the reason for those
ruffed, filly collars.

SQ

Naqerj wrote:
> Rusty Hinge wrote:

>> It is impossible to decorate one of those slouching lumps with
>> anything but a total makeover
>
> Is it? Andy Tiernan had one that seemed appropriately decorated to me -
> it had been painted in John Deere colours.

Ah, now that I *LIKE*

--
Rusty