£ island - Public Health Announcement

Discussion in 'UK Motorcycles' started by boxerboy, Oct 31, 2009.

  1. boxerboy

    Ace Guest

    Even nicer. Rule 1 applired impeccably.
    Ace, Nov 3, 2009
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  2. Guernsey is still a nice place to live .
    steve robinson, Nov 3, 2009
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  3. You would have been aware of this before you decided to settle here
    Considering the birth of the industrial revolution started here i
    think that gives it some credence
    steve robinson, Nov 3, 2009
  4. boxerboy

    CT Guest

    <fx:re-reads sub-thread>

    Oh, yeah.

    <fx:goes for more coffee>
    CT, Nov 3, 2009
  5. boxerboy

    'Hog Guest

    I can't agree with you there.
    Ireland was only built up on the back of EU hand outs and therein lay its

    It failed in any real way to become a manufacturing and export base or a
    centre of intellectual property and R&D.
    The sole success story on any scale was the financial sector and the fake
    property boom built on the back of it. All the eggs in one basket and it got
    Agriculture and fishing are unfortunately fucked at an EU level so no rescue

    A governments primary purpose should be to create an ethical pro business
    low tax economy. But a distributed economy. You have to trade, and trade on
    the world stage or there will be no revenue flow to support social
    wellbeing. Once you have the tax income flow and have made it sustainable
    THEN you can spend it. Anything else is like trying to create a Perpetual
    Motion Machine.

    But I don't think the need for and content of an ethical framework is
    something we would disagree on.
    'Hog, Nov 3, 2009
  6. boxerboy

    'Hog Guest

    Yes yes but that was centuries ago and like all great empires it turned in
    on itself and fed on its own guts. So leave the carcass be.

    GB still has the hidden wealth to recover but it does not have the leaders
    or political system to do so and therefor will not. I have no doubt at all
    about this. If you want to live in a righ successful predominantly WASP
    nation go learn German.

    Possibly Russian but I fear they will squander the wealth of natural
    resources and then eventually collapse again.

    Personally I suggest just retiring somewhere simple and sunny with nice
    beaches and pretty girls.
    'Hog, Nov 3, 2009
  7. That is offset by the costs of chasing the 'students' from non EU
    countries that overstay and have to be deported and the loss in
    revenue from EU students that recieve student loans , grants ,
    maintainance allowance etc who generally do return home but never
    repay the student loan company and are rarely chased up as there is
    no mechanism in place to collect the money .

    Thats why i said originally that any foriegn student should pay fully
    for the course and supply a bond
    steve robinson, Nov 3, 2009
  8. boxerboy

    M J Carley Guest

    So what will `this great nation [sic]' do without the foreign workers
    who currently keep it going?
    Do you mean that the birth of the industrial revolution happened here
    or that the industrial revolution started here? Either way, let's have
    a little look at what you claim:

    `this great nation' is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and
    Northern Ireland, made up of, officially, four nations, in short
    a multi-national federal state;

    the `nation' where the `birth of the industrial revolution started'
    was, strictu sensu, a different country, England (and Wales) or
    Great Britain (no Ireland) or the United Kingdom, depending on when
    you place the date of the start of the industrial revolution;

    the steam engine (which you seem to be confusing with the
    `industrial revolution') was probably a French invention (Denis
    Papin). If we do not make the schoolboy error of confusing `steam
    power' with `industrialization', we find that the `industrial
    revolution' began with the use of water power for mechanization,
    which happened in England and Northern Europe more or less at the
    same time;

    the `industrial revolution' was largely driven in its early stages
    by mechanization in the textile industry (c.f. the Huguenot
    immigrants) and in its later stages by the development of civil
    engineering and transport technology (c.f. the French immigrant

    Now run along and do your homework.
    M J Carley, Nov 3, 2009
  9. boxerboy

    'Hog Guest

    ITYWF that non EU students who come here at considerable expense and qualify
    appropriately couldn't be kept here with strong chains. There is no chasing
    them to leave.

    EU students, well I expect there is a carousel across the richer members.
    Did you know that in Scotland, a nation with incredibly incompetent
    government, created free university for its citizens then realized that
    under EU regs it had to be free for any EU student gaining a place. So a
    bankrupt nation which survives on English and EU handouts now has to pay for
    English. Norn Oirish and other EU nation students to get a free education.
    My nephew from NI just scored a place reading Medicine in Edinburgh for this
    very reason.
    'Hog, Nov 3, 2009
  10. boxerboy

    M J Carley Guest

    Not actually true: Ireland lost more by giving up its fishing rights
    than it gained from EU transfers.
    That's half-true: there was no indigenous industrial development but
    part of the reason for the `boom' was that Ireland had a large number
    of highly trained engineers and technicians, either in the country or
    abroad and ready to return (an Irish engineering degree is of a higher
    standard than a UK one). That provided a supply of highly skilled
    labour for the likes of Intel.
    The financial sector was not a success: it was driven by fraud,
    corruption and incompetence. In a civilized country, the board of
    every major Irish bank would have been prosecuted by now (admittedly,
    this also holds for the UK).
    See above.
    That's the problem: Ireland had a chance to become a decent modern
    society and made a deliberate decision to piss it all away. The same
    criminals who ripped the place off in the 70s and 80s are still
    sitting pretty and the rest are screwed. Now there is nothing left but
    a lot of half-finished houses.
    M J Carley, Nov 3, 2009
  11. boxerboy

    M J Carley Guest

    EU (non UK) students don't receive grants or maintenance allowance as
    these are administered by local authorities. As for the cost of
    chasing `students' from non EU countries, do you have any evidence at
    all for your claim that the cost of chasing them is more than the money
    brought in?
    M J Carley, Nov 3, 2009
  12. boxerboy

    M J Carley Guest

    Actually, it doesn't. It has to give a free education to students from
    other EU countries but to those from the rest of the UK. Does your NI
    nephew now have an Irish passport?
    M J Carley, Nov 3, 2009
  13. Plus low taxation for companies which encouraged in the short term
    many multi-nationals to set up a base thier .

    As new countries have joined the EU they have realised that following
    Irelands path with a few modifications will give them a boost .

    Bulgaria offers grants to set up manufactering plants , no
    corperation tax if your a foriegn company investing into Bulgaria as
    long as the funds stay in the country a low wage low cost workforce
    Thats one of the problems with the EU once countries recieve large
    handouts and the economy becomes reliant on these then its political
    suicide to try and change the structure so no government wants to try

    Irelands realised that now having to slash its state costs and
    increase tax take , Bulgaria is in a similar position if it wasnt in
    the euro the country would be bankrupt , i'm pretty sure Ireland
    would be in a similar position so are many other countries who are
    net recipients of EU state funding
    steve robinson, Nov 3, 2009
  14. boxerboy

    'Hog Guest

    Which is it?
    I expect he has both.
    'Hog, Nov 3, 2009
  15. I can speak German
    steve robinson, Nov 3, 2009
  16. One of the best Universities in the world for medicine i believe

    Scotland doesnt cover those costs , the UK as a whole does through
    funding to Scotland
    steve robinson, Nov 3, 2009
  17. Yes they do once resident in the UK as EU citizens they are entitled
    to the same funding as English,Welsh and Northern Irish students .

    As for the cost of
    steve robinson, Nov 3, 2009
  18. boxerboy

    'Hog Guest

    Can't agree, fishing was never that big!! They make a huuuge amount out of
    EU funding by 100 different routes. I don't believe the total can even be
    For a country to be truly successful long term the business needs to be
    driven by industrialists with a sense of nationalism and philanthropy. I'm
    pretty convinced. So that's not people who only have an interest in making
    money wherever production is cheapest. And as companies become entities of
    executive boards and international shareholder all national interest and
    loyalty goes out of the window and the far east mops up the work (for now).
    It was a huge financial success in terms of tax revenue though and in terms
    of creating some 16000 well paid jobs in Dublin. But as for the governance,
    well it is as the govmint of the day decides. I don't think Irish financiers
    operate mainly outside Irish law. You can argue the governance was
    completely miscalculated, as in the UK, and I will not disagree with you.
    But the financiers buy the political system and so inevitably....!
    Yes it had the opportunity but like the UK it didn't have the characters,
    the intellect and the governmental process to make it happen. Actually I
    think the Irish govmint had much more potential than the more deeply
    entrenched UK system but they seem to have failed anyway.

    When you think of the things that need to come together, the people that
    need to emerge and the stuff that has to happen to create a truly successful
    industrial economy on the world stage so the success of Western Germany post
    WWII is remarkable. Much more so to me than the success of the USA. I don't
    pretend to know the half of how it happened but there are a few key things
    that are evident to me that the UK and RoI could have mimicked.

    I've said I believe the UK is unable and unwilling to pick itself up, do you
    think the same of the RoI?
    'Hog, Nov 3, 2009
  19. Papins invention was more akin to a presure cooker Savery patented
    the first steam engine 1698 you seem to forget about Newcomen , Watt

    You could go back further if yo wish Branca or even Hero .

    .. If we do not make the schoolboy error of confusing `steam
    Now run along and do our research
    steve robinson, Nov 3, 2009
  20. I think both governments realised that if prosecutions were brought
    they too would be implicated and the ensueing financial crash would
    have been far worse than either country has experienced as other
    bankers and investors left in droves
    Same throughout the EU as a whole
    steve robinson, Nov 3, 2009
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