78 new cameras in Victoria, thanks Bracks !

Discussion in 'Australian Motorcycles' started by Paul Spillane, Aug 10, 2003.

  1. This current state ALP government sucks.

    I'd love to punch Bracks and Batchelor in the face when I hear them crow
    that these cameras are all about safety.

    That's crap. If they were serious about road safety they'd be working to
    increase the level of driver skill on the road and improving enforcement of
    a thousand other road laws that cause accidents. How many accidents are
    caused by selfish fast lane hogging forcing tailgaters and people taking
    risks to overtake on the left? What about idiots turning, changing lanes
    without indicating? People who drive/ride in Victoria will know what I mean.

    No, it's easier and much more profitable for Bracks/Batchelor to keep
    installing roadside cash registers (aka "safety cameras").

    But I suppose Brumby has to find the money from somewhere to replace the
    huge budget surplus they inherited from the previous government and which
    they've now pissed against the wall.


    New speed camera blitz
    By Chris Tinkler
    August 10, 2003

    THE locations of 78 new red-light and speed camera traps across Victoria can
    be revealed today as the Bracks Government prepares to launch a fresh war on
    the road toll.

    Victoria is on course for its lowest toll since records began in mid-1951,
    with 214 deaths up to yesterday compared with 224 at the same stage in 1997,
    the previous best year.
    But Police Minister Andre Haermeyer warned that motorists should not be
    As Mr Haermeyer issued the warning, the locations of the Government's $6
    million new intersection cameras have been exclusively obtained by the
    Sunday Herald Sun.
    A total of 85 new camera traps, aimed at Victoria's most dangerous
    intersections, will be phased in from September to December.
    Seven locations are yet to be decided, the Sunday Herald Sun understands,
    but the other 78 are identified.
    The cameras catch speeders as well as red-light runners and can film in four
    Fifty-four of the sites will have cameras permanently in place. The other 31
    sites will have 11 cameras rotated across them.
    The new blitz will be accompanied by an advertising campaign and signs
    erected at the intersections to warn motorists.
    In 2002, 21 people died and 869 were seriously injured at signalled
    At the 78 intersections chosen for the cameras, there have been 1055 crashes
    resulting in serious injuries or deaths in the past five years - more than
    200 a year.
    Wide intersections were being specifically targeted, Mr Haermeyer said.
    The cameras network is expected to record millions of offences a year.
    At only three trial sites, 26,000 speeding or red-light offences were caught
    on film during one month - though no one was fined.
    But Mr Haermeyer said he hoped nothing like that total would be caught once
    the awareness campaign kicked in.
    "We don't want anyone to be fined, because that would mean they were driving
    dangerously. We hope people slow down and be careful," Mr Haermeyer said.
    "We are confident the collision rates at these intersections will drop
    dramatically due to these cameras. There has been a growth in the number of
    cars on the roads and the kilometres travelled, but we had a major reduction
    in the road toll last year and we are on target for another major reduction,
    and possibly the lowest ever toll, this year."
    The previous lowest number of deaths on the state's roads was in 1997, when
    it was 377.
    "In two years we will have reduced the road toll by up to 100, that is not
    chance and it is not the weather," Mr Haermeyer said yesterday.
    "And it is not just about lives which would have been lost, but also about
    lives ruined.
    "There are hundreds more people walking around who would have been seriously
    injured or maimed.
    "Analysis shows the toll drops dramatically when publicity about enforcement
    kicks in.
    "Police are telling us the overall speed (at which) people are driving is
    slower and slower.
    "These measures are working, but any death is too many, so we will continue
    to try to push the toll down.
    "If we had a murder rate similar to the road toll, everyone would be
    demanding drastic action."
    The red light-speed cameras are in addition to several red light cameras
    already in place.
    Other new fixed-camera initiatives are also due to be launched on Hume
    Highway, Geelong Rd and West Gate Freeway in the coming months.
    Up to 30 cameras that measure motorists' speeds between two points, as well
    as on the spot, are to start operating soon on the Hume.
    There will be five banks of cameras across two-to-three northbound lanes and
    another five banks on the southbound carriageway. The cameras are due to be
    approved in the spring session of Parliament.
    On Geelong Rd (Princes Freeway), about 24 standard speed cameras are set to
    become operational within months.
    The cameras will operate in eight banks - four eastbound and four westbound.
    Fixed speed cameras are also set to be installed on West Gate Freeway.
    Dozens of fixed speed cameras operate on Western Ring Rd, Monash Freeway
    before the Domain Tunnel entrance and in CityLink tunnels.

    Sunday Herald Sun
    Paul Spillane, Aug 10, 2003
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  2. Paul Spillane

    Cameron Guest

    Yup! Same in NSW.

    Actually, they _all_ seem to be politicians. :-|

    Seems fair to me......I wouldn't piss in Carr if he was on fire.

    Ah, well, yes..... in theory, I totally agree with you, but, when you
    get down to the practical level of how is this to be done.....<shrug>

    NSW _is_ actually trying to raise the level of driving, but any steps in
    this direction will take generations to actually make a noticeable

    As for the enforcement of "other" laws....that tends to be _very_ costly.


    There is always the alternate of slowing down and backing off.....

    They do this all over the world you know.... :-|

    I agree it is a problem, but, I'd like to hear how you propose it could
    be solved.

    The only way I can imagine it could be effectively tackled would be a
    very large fleet of unmarked police cars, with video cameras running all
    the time, and a law, similar the the speed camera business, where by the
    ticket is sent to the registered owner, and they have to prove someone
    else was driving, or pay the ticket and get the points.

    Trouble is, police persons are an expensive resource, and can be better
    utilised doing more important stuff. Privatising it, wouldn;t be a good
    answer, since we know that the cops can be corrupted, how much more
    dodgey might Joe Bloggs-Traffic Controller Inc. be?

    Indeed. OTOH, if you don't break the speed limit, you don't have to pay.

    Isn't pissing our money against a wall the main function of government?

    Cameron, Aug 10, 2003
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  3. Paul Spillane

    Jorgen Guest

    How about
    1) compulsory introduction of multi day advanced / defensive [track based?]
    driving training for getting your license.
    2) periodic refresher courses e.g. must attend government sponsored advanced
    training periodically e.g. every 5 years and retest rules knowledge to keep
    license. Heck, make them free - let the speed tickets pay for them.

    My pipe dream.

    **** all chance someone's gonna have the guts to introduce something like
    that. I mean, this would actually make a _difference_ to the on road safety.
    Can't have that, can we?

    Jorgen, Aug 10, 2003
  4. **Some are. Here in NSW, some are placed in areas where lots of accidents
    have occured.
    **Do you mean: "The impatient arseholes, who tailgate other lawbreakers."?
    I agree that these people should be given infringement notices. Such a
    scheme would require many more police and a consequent rise in taxation.
    Would you be happy with that?

    What about idiots turning, changing lanes

    **Sure, it happens everywhere. They should be given infrigement notices.
    Will you pay for the extra police?
    **Safety cameras are a good thing. They keep traffic flows to the legal
    limits. The only people who get booked are arseholes who break the law.
    Sounds good to me. Don't speed, don't get booked. Can you see that
    correlation? The more money the government makes from speeding dickheads,
    the less money I need to pay in tax. Sounds fair to me.
    Trevor Wilson, Aug 10, 2003
  5. Paul Spillane

    Cameron Guest

    Trouble with this is that you can't do it all in one hit.... :-|

    A complete learner doesn't (normally) have the knowledge base to even
    understand the application of, shall we, say advanced car-control.
    (BTW, I used to teach just that kind of course.)

    Another problem is that there are _very_ significant numbers of
    unlicensed drivers and riders in Oz already. Without the slow cultural
    changes, making a license harder to get will only make the unlicensed
    folk a greater problem.

    Great idea....apart from the unlicensed business....but would cost a lot
    of money.

    Ah, you just don't understand a polly, do you? They have got an income
    stream from speeding tickets. They have already spent that on whatever.

    What you smoking in that there pipe? ;-)

    Somebody said that politics is the art of the possible.

    "Possible" being viewed in the light of a polly's primary concern, being

    If there was an easy, quick, cheap and effective answer, they would have
    tried it by now, dog knows, they have tried lots of quick, cheap answers
    so far.

    Cameron, Aug 10, 2003
  6. John McKenzie, Aug 10, 2003
  7. Paul Spillane

    Boxer Guest

    Only the Labor Party is using speed cameras.

    Boxer, Aug 10, 2003
  8. Paul Spillane

    Cameron Guest

    Aye, and the libs might well promise to remove them.....
    but would that be a _core_ promise? ;-)

    Cameron, Aug 10, 2003
  9. Keep shaking it D.
    Shake if when you go past one of the 15,000 cameras one day bang on the
    limit - in fact a bees dick under, and you get the notice in the post.
    shake it again all the way to the PO with you cheques, where you get
    shunted by some moron as you slow for an amber to make sure you don't
    become a victim of the camera there, and when you eventually find a park
    (takes an hour because there are U turn detecting CCVCs placed on every
    corner, so you have to go to the next suburb that doesn't have a PO)and are
    crossing the street to post your cheque in the express envelope you'll be
    knocked over by another moron who gets out and as says 'sorry, mate,
    didn't see ya'.
    Shake you hear as in your dying gasp, you ask moron 2 to do you a favour
    and post the cheque for you, and reflect how both the morons you just meant
    have probably never exceeded a stupid arbitrary speed limit in their lives.
    Toby Ponsenby, Aug 10, 2003
  10. Paul Spillane

    atec77>> Guest

    Ah Ic . dazza is one of those poly types. bet he walks everywhere.
    atec77>>, Aug 10, 2003
  11. Paul Spillane

    atec77>> Guest

    atec77>>, Aug 10, 2003
  12. Paul Spillane

    Stan Marsh Guest

    You can tell the ones who routinely speed, and who regard speed limits as

    I've NEVER been pinged for speeding, but this stuff makes me REALLY mad.
    Speed is not a major cause of accidents, it's just the easiest for them to

    Back to the original article:
    "If we had a murder rate similar to the road toll, everyone would be
    demanding drastic action."

    Well Mr Haermeyer, why don't you weave some magic on the suicide statistics?
    Stan Marsh, Aug 10, 2003
  13. Paul Spillane

    atec77>> Guest

    and the result of the targeting is money.
    that's M.O.N.E.Y
    so how about we reduce the polies to real money , place the burden of
    proof on them and start burning tyres on gatzos.
    atec77>>, Aug 10, 2003
  14. Paul Spillane

    fasgnadh Guest

    Easier, cost effective, and they work.

    The road toll is down.

    When there is crime, people demand more police to
    discourage it.

    Camera's have the same deterrent effect at a fraction of the cost.
    They are on duty 24 hours a day, don't take sickies, or bribes,
    and don't lie.

    Don't want to be fined? Simple.. Don't break the laws!
    fasgnadh, Aug 10, 2003
  15. Paul Spillane

    DaZZa Guest

    a) What more proof than a radar guided, indelible photograph do you want?
    b) You fight it in court. If your claim is true, you win.
    c) It doesn't. But then again, it doesn't stop your average speeder either.
    I didn't claim it would. I said if you don't want to be fined, don't speed.
    Which part of English did you skip at school?
    d) Your vehicle is defective, and you deserve everything you get.

    Oh, and

    e) I don't drive a Camry. They're made for short arses. I wouldn't fit in
    one. I also don't wear grey. Unless you count my socks. As for cardigans
    - I haven't seen one of them since my grandfather died.

    DaZZa - who just _loves_ reasoned debate.

    People can be divided into three classes.
    The few who make things happen
    The many who watch things happen
    And the overwhelming majority who have no ides what has happened

    Picked up from a web site, author unknown

    Address in header is spamblocked. ROT13 the following for email replies
    DaZZa, Aug 10, 2003
  16. Paul Spillane

    Smee Guest

    Wot a load of crock
    In Victoria the libs PRIVATISED the cameras and also encouraged new technology.
    you honestly believe it would be any differen with the libs?
    gimme a break .
    Smee, Aug 10, 2003
  17. Paul Spillane

    atec77>> Guest

    ah so your a dole bludger.. might have know.
    atec77>>, Aug 10, 2003
  18. Paul Spillane

    Noddy Guest

    Fucking idiot...

    Noddy, Aug 10, 2003
  19. Paul Spillane

    atec77>> Guest

    well what do you expect from one of those poly groupies
    atec77>>, Aug 10, 2003
  20. Paul Spillane

    DaZZa Guest

    Yup. I'm a dole bludger who earns in excess of $80k a year.

    try again, dickhead.


    People can be divided into three classes.
    The few who make things happen
    The many who watch things happen
    And the overwhelming majority who have no ides what has happened

    Picked up from a web site, author unknown

    Address in header is spamblocked. ROT13 the following for email replies
    DaZZa, Aug 10, 2003
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