A warning to anyone planning to ride in Kent

Discussion in 'UK Motorcycles' started by JackH, Sep 28, 2009.

  1. JackH

    JackH Guest

    Yesterday, Pater was nicked on his bike for going a smidgen over the
    speed limit along the A256 near Sandwich.

    He related that a 'black sports bike with twin headlights' got up
    behind him whilst he was being relatively sensible, and then 'had a
    bit of a burn with him' for quite a way before putting on the blues,
    pulling him over, and then showed him the camera footage before
    calling in two plods on marked bikes to do all the paperwork.

    The rider had a black helmet and apparently works out of Maidstone, so
    it's fair to say they are almost certainly targetting roads all over
    the county which they know are popular with bikers on a Sunday etc,
    much as he claimed 'we're targetting all vehicles which are speeding,
    not just bikes'... that'll be why he latched onto the back of a bike
    which was being ridden sensibly by an old duffer then, I guess.

    There is a meet on a Wednesday evening on the road that runs between
    Deal and Sandwich which I have been told they have also been
    targetting of late... and which happens to sit on a road that
    conveniently had the speed limit along it dropped from 60mph to 50mph
    not so long ago - perhaps it's time for regular prolonged 'go slows'
    along routes like that when plod are known to be in the area...
     
    JackH, Sep 28, 2009
    #1
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  2. JackH

    fishman Guest

    I'm hearing about this kind of thing more and more. They used to do it
    to boy racers by tailgating in an Impreza turbo. I call it entrapment,
    deliberately attempting to lure someone into doing something illegal
    by testing self control that would have otherwise remained untested.
    How is that improving road safety?
     
    fishman, Sep 28, 2009
    #2
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  3. JackH

    B650 Guest

    My parents live there, and I've regularly seen them pulling people on
    the Sandwich bypass on weekends (long sweeping curve with large
    parking areas at the side, perfect for plod to lie in wait). The
    roads are usually so quiet around there, it's easy to make progress a
    little too rapidly.

    I've often feared getting pulled on the bit of the A256 from Eastry to
    Dover, it's the quietest bit of dual carriageway I've ever seen, and
    there are a few roundabouts along the way to test the "flickability"
    of a bike. I think it would be a physical impossibility to ride that
    road slowly....
     
    B650, Sep 28, 2009
    #3
  4. JackH

    zymurgy Guest

    That's really quite shitty. I generally take it easy if i'm being
    tailed, just to make sure. Doing it on an unmarked sports bike is
    pretty underhand.

    Paul.

    Paul.
     
    zymurgy, Sep 28, 2009
    #4
  5. JackH

    JackH Guest

    I posted in here about a week or so ago regarding the BMW 5 series
    estate that tried to bait me by getting up behind me on the M23 when I
    was driving my mates Fabia vRS, so it appears to be a trend of sorts.

    Fortunately, we'd already clocked it further back along the road - had
    we not seen it there with its blues on, I doubt I'd have spotted it
    was an unmarked car when it pulled up behind me, as it was totally
    bereft of aerials / no obvious blue lights / signs in the back window,
    nothing obvious from behind you could see in terms of extra gear on
    the dash either.

    I also spotted a metallic blue Ford Focus ST (VN57 HCX if anyone is
    interersted), on the M25 near the A3 exit a couple of weeks ago -
    nothing obvious like aerials again, but it turned out to be yet
    another unmarked car.

    I'm seriously considering going down to where my dad was pulled with a
    video camera set up to see if I can get evidence of them tagging onto
    the back of stuff and baiting people, then presenting it to their
    Chief Constable with an official complaint along the lines of
    'entrapment' tbh.
    It's exactly that.

    My dad... don't get me wrong, he's not squeaky clean when it comes to
    sticking within limits etc, but he told me these are the first points
    he's got in over 40 years of driving / riding, and he's never had
    anything more than the odd nudge in a car park, accident wise.

    It doesn't excuse what he's done on this occasion, but IMHO at least,
    it's a sign of the times that he's been targetted and nicked by way of
    the methods used.

    He's just grateful they didn't latch onto him five minutes earlier
    along the very clear and monotonous 50mph dual carriageway just up the
    road from where he got nicked. ;-)
    It isn't.

    HTH

    In fact it's going to have the opposite effect in the longer term if
    everyone, car drivers included, is going to end up spending more of
    their time watching their speedos / rear view mirrors.
     
    JackH, Sep 28, 2009
    #5
  6. JackH

    JackH Guest

    'Yes, but think of the children! (1)'

    (1) Of which there are none anywhere near the road in question, other
    than those also being driven along in other vehicles etc.
     
    JackH, Sep 28, 2009
    #6
  7. JackH

    JackH Guest

    I know of someone clocked by a static van trap along there, courtesy
    of our friends at the Kent and Medway 'Safety' Partnershit mid-
    afternoon on a weekday, a while back.

    Maybe they're not using the same tactics now, but they were parking up
    on a verge just after a rise in the road, and nicking people as they
    came over the brow - in other words, you don't stand a chance.

    But yes, you're right. It's a nice bit of road to stretch your legs
    along if clear... and funnily enough, it doesn't appear to have a high
    accident rate either.

    Funny that, isn't it...
     
    JackH, Sep 28, 2009
    #7
  8. I tend to move over and let quicker vehicles pass, then I try to keep
    up with them. My reasoning is that they'd see a camera/van before me
    and give me time to slow down. I wonder what the score would be if I
    did that with an unmarked plodmobile.
     
    the man with no idea, Sep 28, 2009
    #8
  9. JackH

    T i m Guest

    But hasn't that been the case since way back?

    At least with an unmarked vehicle they stand a chance of also catching
    the twats (not just people going 'too fast') which is better than any
    of the existing speed measuring systems they have out there (that the
    twats generally work-around and don't include any consideration for
    the conditions etc [1]).

    Sorry about yer ole man though, there but the ...

    T i m

    [1] 29 mph past a camera in thick fog could sill be very dangerous and
    45 mph at 3am probably wouldn't.
     
    T i m, Sep 29, 2009
    #9

  10. I posted this over 10 years ago but things don't change:



    Second time a traffic cop from Nackington traffic police Canterbury in
    his own sh*t red Renault but with uniform on followed me from lights at
    the Cross Keys pub, where I noticed him and uniform. He tried to push me
    along Nackington road. I'm doing the speed limit 30 then 60 he is
    pulling back then coming up behind me fast to within 2 feet of the rear
    of my bike. I pull off in to a side turning on the left breaking late
    but using rear observation. He breaks, part takes the corner and mounts
    the verge on the corner. I stop, get off to have a word with him. He
    panics drives off the banking U turns in the road, several cars have to
    execute emergency stops. I follow the red Renault back to the Traffic
    section where he disappears in to the car park and runs into the
    building.

    Nobody there knows anything about the car or driver. I later telephone
    the head of traffic in Maidstone. After inquiries the answer is there is
    no one with a red Renault there and no one would tail gate to get a
    motor cyclist to speed.
     
    Mick Whittingham, Sep 29, 2009
    #10
  11. JackH

    YTC#1 Guest

    Hmm, I've always worked on the theory that plod uses white helmets, as
    recommended by the Highway Code.

    And that the helmet i question already has all the coms gear they need etc.
     
    YTC#1, Sep 29, 2009
    #11
  12. JackH

    Ben Guest

    That reasoning doesn't apply to West Mids or Worcestershire forces in
    my personal experience.
     
    Ben, Sep 29, 2009
    #12
  13. JackH

    T i m Guest

    Could you have dropped by the car park on a later date and if the car
    was there note the registration? I'm sure there are plenty of ways to
    get more info if needed?

    T i m
     
    T i m, Sep 29, 2009
    #13
  14. JackH

    JackH Guest

    Just as I've worked on the theory that *all* stealth traffic stuff
    down this way will have three unequal length aerials on the roof...
    car wise, anyway.

    Not the case any more.
     
    JackH, Sep 30, 2009
    #14
  15. JackH

    JackH Guest

    Not like this... down here, at least.

    Up until recently they've seemed to the odd token hairdryer session at
    the side of the road then left the 'Safety Partnership' to do their
    worst.
    I agree with the last bit; driving appropriately for the conditions is
    at times far more important than just speed alone.

    One thing that really bugs me is when it's raining hard or there's a
    tiny hint of fog around, and people are bowling past at 90mph... with
    their rear fog lights on.

    In anything but *really* foggy conditions where they're actually
    needed, all they do is increase the likelihood of someone hitting you
    up the arse, as the impact on the driver behind when the brake lights
    come on, is reduced.
    I'm sorry too, given I got the whole story out of him today.

    Apparently he'd been doing an indicated 60 - 65 in a 60 when he first
    noticed the twat concerned latched onto the back of his bike... he
    overtook a couple of cars at an indicated 70 (1), and the bike
    concerned followed.

    When they got to a roundabout, the bike behind then got *right* up his
    chuff, at which point he decided he'd open his up to get a bit of
    distance between them, and this was when he filmed doing over 80mph,
    apparently.

    So at this point, he's done enough to be pulled over and brought to
    book - after all, this kind of policing is being carried out all in
    the name of 'safety'... isn't it?

    But he didn't get pulled... the bike continued to tail him into a 40
    limit which he was slightly over, and *then* pulled him over.

    All this must have been over a distance of a mile and a half, if that.

    When stopped, the flatfoot concerned mentioned the 'aggressive manner
    of his riding at the roundabout'... and declined to comment when Dad
    pointed out he wasn't the one getting right up the arse of a bike in
    front.

    When uniform turned up to sort out all the paperwork, the unmarked
    rider then told them to do Dad for two separate offences, as in the 86
    in a 60, and whatever it was he was doing as he entered the 40 limit.

    Fortunately for Dad, once the unmarked bike had cleared off, the
    officer he was then dealing with him opted to give him just the one
    fixed penalty for the offence in the 60 zone... quite possibly
    something to do with the fact he is apparently a biker himself I
    suspect.

    I've suggested Dad ask for a copy of the film concerned under the Data
    Protection Act, which I personally would then be considering
    forwarding a copy of it to the Chief Constable together with a
    complaint along the lines of 'entrapment', but he doesn't want the
    grief given he thinks he got off lightly thanks to the plod who
    actually booked him.

    And no, he doesn't think he shouldn't have been done either... but
    like me, he's a bit concerned by the methods used to entrap him, and
    as I have already said, I've had a Sussex plod try exactly the same
    shit with me in terms of getting up the arse of a car I was driving
    along the M23 recently, before clearing off when it became obvious I
    wasn't going to play ball.

    If this kind of policing is being carried out in the name of safety
    rather than as a method of raising revenue, then one has to ask how
    much safer it is for two vehicles to be travelling at speed in excess
    of the posted limit along a stretch of road, than if just the one
    vehicle is doing it.

    (1) So a potential candidate for the '10% + 2mph' rule.
     
    JackH, Sep 30, 2009
    #15
  16. JackH

    JackH Guest

    I had an experience of sorts with, given the location it happened, I
    presume involved officers from Nackington.

    Wafting along Stone Street towards Hythe one Sunday, I became aware of
    a silver Volvo estate coming up quickly behind me just after what was
    the George pub, and it then overtook me on the chevrons on the
    staggered junction by Six Mile Garage.

    Although the car had blacked out windows, I clocked the standard issue
    plod aerial work on the rear of the roof, and I'd already clocked the
    two occupants had white shirts with black lapels, just as they went
    past.

    Anyway... I thought to myself 'that was a silly place to overtake, and
    with no blues and twos on either', but left them to it.

    A little bit further up the road, they did the same to another car,
    only this time they did it on an even more dodgy rise in the road; had
    anything been coming the other way, I can't see how they'd have
    avoided a head-on.

    So for some stupid reason I decided to have a go at reeling them in,
    with the logic being 'well, they can't film me at X mph if I'm behind
    them, can they'. ;-)

    Got the big drop at Farthing Common, and I'd caught them up but didn't
    get right up behind them. Coming out of the bend at the bottom of the
    hill they then decided to have a go at blowing me off, but I was in
    something not all that quick looking, but which actually did shift
    quite well when you asked it to, so I whilst maintaining my distance
    from them, I managed to keep up without any real problems.

    A bit further up the road, they overtook a couple of cars along the
    big sweeper just past Stanford and I did exactly the same.

    When we got to the roundabout over the M20, they pulled me over and I
    ended up spending 20 minutes sat there whilst they kept looking under
    the bonnet of the car (1), and were trying to radio for a marked car
    to come along and turn both me and the car over good and proper.

    When I questioned why they'd been overtaking in what were frankly
    stupid places and without their blues on, one of them offered up an
    explanation along the lines that 'Remember that police officer caught
    doing in excess of 150mph in a Vectra, and then let off? Well we can
    do the same'

    And then he went off on a tangent along the lines of because he'd had
    advanced driver training and I hadn't, I was in no position to be able
    to judge whether or not a manoeuvre was dodgy or not.

    Pure arrogance... and sometimes I wish I'd put in an official
    complaint given their attitude.

    (1) It would appear they thought the car *must* have been tuned to be
    able to give a T5 a run for its money, and it was actually standard.
     
    JackH, Sep 30, 2009
    #16

  17. Remember the number.

    It may have changed now but when I lived in Kent, the police purchasing
    authority would buy the cars in one order per year (Peugeots by the
    Canterbury and area lot) and they would have sequential numbers.
     
    Mick Whittingham, Sep 30, 2009
    #17
  18. Lots of things to be done in hind sight.

    Plus I didn't want to wind then up that much after I had 'calmed down'.

    The general reputation of the police in the Kent area in my opinion is
    not a good one, as many of my additions to this news group will show.

    And due to their 'vindictive nature' [1] I have only ever posted stuff
    here, while I lived in Kent, that they knew was on the money.

    [1] This could be interpreted as 'thorough policing methods'.
     
    Mick Whittingham, Sep 30, 2009
    #18
  19. JackH

    JackH Guest

    They've moved away from Peugeots now... which is a shame, because the
    non-turbo 309s they used to use as panda cars were ever so spritely
    off the mark. ;-)

    Panda and area cars are now all Skodas. Most of them are Octavia vRS
    estates, so rather rapid when needs be, and none of them appear to
    have sequential number plates. The rest tend to be Fabia 1.4 TDI
    estates.

    Motorway patrol wise, they've still got a few Volvo T5 estates but
    anything recent appears to be a BMW 5 series, and they've got at least
    one marked Audi A6 and there's one 06 plate light metallic blue Volvo
    saloon that is used for nicking speeders along the main routes etc.

    There was an incident a few months back where what turned out to be a
    crim on the run got nabbed aong Tourtel Road, having lost control of
    his car when being chased by two marked Octavias. When we came past
    the scene, there was an abundance of unmarked stuff there including an
    A6, 5 series and of all things, a Seat Ibiza.

    Oh... and loads and loads of unmarked Mk2 Octavia vRS hatches.

    <thinks>

    I need to get out more...
     
    JackH, Sep 30, 2009
    #19
  20. JackH

    Catman Guest

    White shirts, epaulets.

    --
    Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
    Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
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    Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
    www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
     
    Catman, Sep 30, 2009
    #20
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