Another nail.

-- Ramble on
Picked up something last Friday that punctured they rear tyre. Down
to 6psi after 15 minutes.

It looked like a very large nail, and it looked bad enough that I
wasn't happy to ride on it at any speed.

OK, I'll call the Honda Riders Assist. "Sorry, Sir, your cover
expired two weeks ago [and we didn't send you a reminder]. I can sign
you up for another year, but it won't be active until tomorrow."
Funny how you only discover people are not there to help when you need
them.
-- Ramble off

I don't have the stuff necessary to change a tire... so I had to ride
with a foot pump in my pack to the local dealership to get the tyre
changed.

Before setting off, I got hold of a $20 can of puncture repair foam
(a.k.a. Holts Tyreweld) just in case the puncture got worse. It only
made sense to actually USE the stuff if the distance I had to go to
the dealership was further than the curing distance - 15km. Some
people would circle the block at the dealers until the milo showed the
right distance, some others would go directly there and have it slop
out when the tyre was opened up in the workshop (which might not go
down very well with the Michelin man), but I will ride on rims for
8km.

From reading around on the net, lots of motorcyclists have used
Tyreweld over the years without problems (but never used a can that
didn't say don't use it). A couple of people have said it might make
a repairable puncture unrepairable (depending on the garage), and
someone else said if you keep the repaired tyre for months -- I hope
he wasn't racing on it! -- it can corrode the rim and leave you
needing a new one.

Every can says "Not to be used on motorcycles" -- anybody know WHY?

 

a case of u only have 2 tyres, not 4 like acr. Repairing a bike tyre
should only be done If u r sure that the tyre aint stuffed so = no
motosicycles

 

"> Every can says "Not to be used on motorcycles" -- anybody know WHY?
I reckon it's just to cover their arse. If it doesn't work you're more
likley to come to a bad end on a bike than in a car as cars don't fall over.

I haven't had much sucess with these on a bike. Tried "finileak" and
another brand on different occaisions. Rode home gingerly on the rims both
times. I have however repaired a tubless tyre roadside with a plug and that
worked. Rode to the servo gingerly on half pressure.

All three times it was a rear tyre, I'm guessing riding a front on the rims
would be a challange

Capt. A. L.

 

Don't know for sure, but I wonder if it is because of the
curvature of motorcycle tyres, compared to car tyres which
have a flat running surface. The centrifugal force as you
are riding while it is curing would push all the goop into
the centre of the tyre, so it may miss the puncture site if
the puncture isn't right in the middle.
That's my guess anyway.

 

Because they're sold as the end-all-be-all fix tyre fix it, but it's
actually notoriously useless for anything other than certain types of
punctures - where it then becomes just a lot unreliable.

And even so, it is NOT a legally allowable tyre fix. If your tyre fails,
you run on this wonder fix, and it fails again during a critical turn and you
plough into pedestrians, then YOU will be liable. You will NOT be able to
claim tyre failure, because you knowingly used an illegal tyre repair method
that failed at a critical moment.

If they didn't claim the bike bit, some idiot would try to use them, it
would fail, they come off, and sue for substantially more damages than the
same for a car which they do NOT warrant anyway.

I have several associates who use a similar type of goop for bicycles. When
it eventually fails properly (and it always does) it usually involves a tube
AND tyre replacement, because it seals the valve shut, and bonds a fair part
of the tube to the tyre.
Meaning you cannot use a patch on the tyre (mandating a replacement), and
you now have a shard of glass embedded AND bonded to the tyre so you can't
easily pick it out.
They're really happy when I tell them their two dollar super fix will cost
them a lot more now.

Bicycles are considered non-critical as far as safety devices go (heck only
a helmet is required to comply with legals) and have this much trouble, just
imagine how bad things could get in a car, two tons worth of metal, plastic
and glass screaming along at 100Km/h and this end-all-be-all fix fails.



Ok, aside from all of the above, say you want to use it as an emergency-only
fix where you have no other options to choose from, and go as soon as possible
to a tyre fix-it place to do it properly.

It will cost you more, because not only are you up for the usual repair of
the official patch + labour, you're looking at a new valve (and/or tube where
applicable), and extra labour to clean out this crap from all surfaces of the
rim and tyre. And because the repair takes so much longer, you need to bum
around at their waiting room for longer, stuck with reading eight year old
trashy tabloid women's magazines.
And NOTHING is worth doing that.

When you could have used the spare tyre like normal people. Bike flats
happen. They happen to me, they happen to everyone. We've been dealing with
them since bikes were invented, so can you.
If you want to be really girly, some scooters have their own spare on-board.


Sure, I could have simply said "just don't do it" but I really detest this
goop, and could only really express the extent of my hatred by several examples.

 

You are saying Tyre Weld is illegal for use on road vehicles? Riding
a slow puncture isn't exactly safe either.

How much does a tow cost roughly? In comparison, a new tyre (inc.
labour, no gunk) was $150. if transporting the bike costs less than
$100, transport is the better option.

Yes. I thought about that. I'm looking at the best/safest way to get
to somewhere where the work can be done, so I'm prepared to accept a
higher cost in exchange for it being safer than riding a medium-fast
puncture.

So what exactly are you proposing (in other words what would you have
done)? A tyre plug or something? You seem to be saying I should
carry a spare with me, which involves not just a rim and a tyre but
all the tools to do a change, including a jack and a pump. I'm not
riding a Harley mate! ;-)

So I see.

 

Tyre Weld is only one of the brands, but yes, they're illegal on road vehicles.

And yes, a slow puncture isn't safe to leave either.

That's why we have spare tyres. Or, in the case of a bike and you simply
don't have that luxury, your only option is to take it off the road to a
repair facility.

If or when things go wrong, you won't get any sympathy in the legal sense.

How much does dropping a bike cost? How much does plowing into pedestrians
cost?

"Best" is a subjective term. It assumes needs, wants, and perhaps undesired
requirements to a problem, and many of these are merely assumed and aren't
otherwise stated. In other words, it doesn't mean anything because no-one
knows exactly what is "best" for anyone but themselves.

"Safe" is clear-cut, but one can go overboard on cost, time, effort and
inconvenience, and you'd be better off not on a bike in the first place.

"Legal" is the only one that counts. It might not be "Bestest", nor
"Safest", but since it's the only one that counts, it's the only one that
actually matters in a society that is run like like.
What you do on private property is your business, you make up the rules, but
if you want to play on public roads, you need to play by public legals.

If run a tubeless rim, a plug is required, and there are legals on the
position of the plug and how it's actually applied.
I'm a bit vague on the legals of tubed systems and if they need a new tube
or an official patch will do (I've only ever had tubes outright replaced),
but either way, a tyre plug is still required to plug the hole even if it
doesn't need to hold air in this case.

Depends on practicals. A spare wheel (or just tyre and tools) are usually
not practical for most bikes.

I see it as a small "cost". In that I could be caged up all day (as I once
was) and have the luxury of a jack, tools and spare wheel, or, a bike and do
without those.
Clearly, I've picked the bike.


So, for flats and other issues (like a P-Plater plowing into my arse end
last week at ~55K/mh mangling the bike, my calf muscle and knee), call for a
tow. Bike couriers/tows are generally cheaper than official car towies, and
are nicer people to deal with anyway. And yes, I AM saying car towies are
arseholes. And before anyone says anything, I do know I'm being nice when I
call them "arseholes".

Just to be clear.

 

In aus.motorcycles on Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:23:49 -0700 (PDT)

I have used a tyre leak foam whatsit in a tubed tyre without problems.
On the other hand, it was only for about 20km and at city speeds.

I have tubeless tyres now, so I carry a tubeless repair kit with CO2
and plugs.

When I had tubed tyres on tour I would have the tools I needed to
remove the rear wheel and a working thumb. Never had to do it, but
figured a bod walking along the road with a helmet and wheel in hand
would probably get a lift to the nearest town from someone. And most
country town servos would have some old patching stuff in a drawer
somewhere if they didn't have a bike shop with a usable tube.

Zebee

 

There are laws related to emergency tyre repairs?

The stuff in the tyre weld cans reacts to air and turns into a very hard
substance once the tyre has been inflated. Its very important that you
spread the stuff evenly throughout the tyre, which means you have to
start moving pretty much immediately after inflating the tyre and keep
it rotating till the stuff has set, or else it will harden unevenly and
leave you with a very out of balance tyre which would be most unsavoury
on a bike.

Nev..
'08 DL1000K8

 

In aus.motorcycles on Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:27:49 +1000

Cite please. Is this a federal law or a state law?

WHat are the penalties in law?

What is the case law that makes you say you will be considered to have
been negligent or contributed to a crash if you use it?

You are so certain, I'm sure you must have clear data on this.

Zebee

 

sk tsk there you go again letting logic and truth get in the way of a
good beatup .

 

Ahem. Been told by someone who worked in the industry who claimed they were
well versed in the legals regarding repairs. Let me chase that up and I'll
get get back to you.

 

I think any rules regarding permanent vehicle repairs by industry
professionals are in no way relevant to emergency roadside repairs. By
that reckoning, using a rope to drag a car out of a ditch would be
illegal because the rope didn't comply with the requirements of trailer
registration.

Nev..
'08 DL1000K8

 

and totally unsafe and cause instant death because

a) the people involved were not wearing their super safety glow in the
day vests
b) the road for 500mt before was not cordoned off with witches (Betty)
hats.
c) there wasn't two people paid $70k a year holding lollypops thinking
they have more power than policemen
d) the driver of the the towing car wasn't part of the Miscellaneous
Early School Leavers Union and therefore has no idea what he is doing.
e) they used a half hitch knot and we all know that will never work.
f) they never filled their work method statement.
g) they were not inducted to site


**** I am over that shit.....

mh

 

LOL it's absolute bullshit isn't it.

Some OHS inspectors are absolute dickheads. I know of one
site in Brisbane where construction was being done on a
short dead end street. The construction site was the only
occupant of the street. OHS inspector came and shut the site
down because they didn't have a traffic controller on the
street. So they had to hire one that had all the appropriate
qualifications to sit there and stop the traffic that didn't
exist.

Another stupid scenario - there was a work site at my kid's
school. Their trucks were driving through from the teacher's
carpark entrance, across an open space, to the cordoned off
worksite. I had some spare time one day, and watched - about
1 truck every 20 minutes. The route they were taking was
also the main entrance point for the prep & year 1 students
with their parents. OHS inspector decided that for the 30
minutes in the morning and 20 minutes in the afternoon when
parents were dropping off and picking up, it was too
dangerous for parents & kids to cross this area where the
trucks were going through, so they locked the gate. This
forced the parents & their young kids to either a) park in
the normal drop-off area and walk right around to the main
entrance of the school, or b) find a park closer to the main
entrance. Stupid thing is, option a) meant that they still
had to cross where the trucks were entering the school, but
they were now crossing at a point that was used both by the
trucks and the entrance to the teachers carpark. If they
chose option b) they would have to cross a busy street. But
according to the OHS inspector that was safer than having
them cross the truck's path inside the school.

Oh yeah - another one. We had a dickhead come into our
workplace, and removed all the double adaptors. Apparently a
corded 4 way power board is safer than a simple double
adaptor plugged into a wall socket. Despite the fact that
the double adaptors meet the relevant standards. It is just
bullshit.

Most of these OHS inspectors have their heads so far up
their collective arses they haven't got a clue what the real
world is like. They are nothing more than an extra cost on
businesses and taxpayers. I did an OHS course that was run
by some fuckwit who was an OHS officer for the QLD fire
service. This idiot presented to us his work for the last 6
months: A 30 page illustrated manual on the correct
operation of the gas-lift chair that they issued in the
firie's comms department. WHAT A WASTE OF FUCKING TIME AND
MONEY! This idiot was just creating work to justify his own
position. And we wonder why the government can't balance the
budget, it's because of useless shits like him collecting
100k+ salaries and doing absolutely nothing.

 

Well there's your answer right there. Dodgy insurance companies will
do all they can to avoid their obligations including, if they think
it will work, claiming that certain things are illegal, even if
they're not.


GB

 

http://www.holtsauto.com/carcare/faqs#tyreweld

"Tyreweld is a water based latex emulsion (milky white solution) which
coats the inner if the tyre, locating and temporarily sealing the
puncture and developing a protective latex film over the top. Tyreweld
can be removed with soapy warm water, the tyre dried and then buffed
on a buffing wheel. This will roughen the surface to provide an
adequate key to take the patch ensuring all residual dry latex will be
removed and nothing will remain to react with the patch or adhesive".

 

Heh, we recently had a contractor drop his crane (the incorrect crane
for the job - an articulating crane on non level ground without
stabilisers) through a phase of the 3 phase 22kV here. But workcover
were happy because he did it safely - he had filled out his safe
working methods correctly, if perhaps a little tersely.

Then the same company (we're government, we need to employ local
contractors) almost dropped the bigger crane trying to at least get
the smaller crane back to vertical so it could be towed away and
condemned.

 

This was my point! It doesn't have to be the BEST way, nor the SAFEST way,
but it needs to be the LEGAL way.

"We don't give a shit how you do your job, as long as you don't sue us".

 

Well-considered analysis