Another travel insurance question

Discussion in 'UK Motorcycles' started by the man with no idea, Apr 21, 2009.

  1. Last year I had an annual policy with direct travel insurance - I
    think Wessie had recommended them in the past. This year I'm not going
    anywhere except one trip to Germany, including one day at the
    Nurburgring. So I rang them today to ask about a single trip policy
    (£8.50 for 6 days seemed reasonable).

    However, when I mentioned the Ring, the helpful young man asked if
    that was the main purpose of the trip. I explained that I was actually
    going to attend a wine festival but on one day I was planning to do
    one lap of the circuit. Initially he said that was fine but I wouldn't
    be covered while on the circuit. Seemed fair enough. Then he went off
    to check. He then said the company could only cover for the whole trip
    - or none of it. Since they couldn't cover my time on the Ring they
    were unable to offer me a policy.

    Is this standard? If so, I guess I'm knackered. Does anyone know an
    insurer who would cover me except when on the circuit or, better
    still, who might cover me while on the Nurburgring? Well, the latter
    might be expecting a bit much.
    the man with no idea, Apr 21, 2009
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  2. the man with no idea

    Pete Fisher Guest

    In communiqué
    And where do you stand regarding car/bike insurance when on the 'ring' -
    even for just TP cover ?

    | Pete Fisher at Home: |
    | Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest * 2 Yamaha WR250Z |
    | Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
    Pete Fisher, Apr 21, 2009
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  3. the man with no idea

    Adrian Guest

    Adrian, Apr 21, 2009
  4. I checked that before I posted - obviously it's more relevant to
    Pete's question than mine.

    My problem at the moment is that it looks like I can't get any travel
    insurance at all for the holiday because I'm going to do one lap of
    the 'ring'. That just seems a bit crap really.
    the man with no idea, Apr 21, 2009
  5. the man with no idea

    Adrian Guest

    There's an easy solution. Don't ask, don't tell - and if you do bin it on
    the ring, just play the innocent when you (or the missus) fill in the
    claim form...
    Adrian, Apr 21, 2009
  6. That's starting to look like the correct answer.
    the man with no idea, Apr 21, 2009
  7. the man with no idea

    Adrian Guest

    All you need to do is to make sure you don't leave a trail that suggests
    you might be aware of the problem, otherwise there's a good risk that you
    could find the insurance cancelled because you lied on the form.

    So, as long as you don't do anything daft like ask on Usenet, you should
    be fine.

    Adrian, Apr 21, 2009
  8. the man with no idea

    darsy Guest

    darsy, Apr 21, 2009
  9. the man with no idea

    platypus Guest

    It's easier to get forgiveness than permission.
    platypus, Apr 21, 2009
  10. While that's a maxim I apply to almost all aspects of life, I'm not
    sure it applies to insurance companies. They seem to live by "if
    there's a hole, we'll screw it." Actually, that probably applies to a
    few UKRMers.
    the man with no idea, Apr 21, 2009
  11. the man with no idea

    Pete Fisher Guest

    That wasn't an option when I did the Charade and Mas du Clos track days
    in 2006, as the VCF and Point de Corde required proof of TP cover (for
    private circuit use) before they would let you take part. Fortunately, I
    found a company in France that would do 'RC' cover for a day for about
    10 euros IIRC. It seems that most of the French riders, but not all,
    would have been covered by their standard road policies.

    That was strictly to cover liability for injuries to other people - not
    damage to any vehicle.

    | Pete Fisher at Home: |
    | Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest * 2 Yamaha WR250Z |
    | Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
    Pete Fisher, Apr 21, 2009
  12. Le Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:56:58 +0100, Pete Fisher a écrit :
    A lot of french insco cover 'private' track days under RC(1) unless these
    track days are considered as 'official competition or training' (FFM/FIM
    championship or competition, opened to license holders, etc).

    La Bête des Vosges
    (1) RC: Responsabilité Civile only covers damage done to others. It is
    the cheaper insurance cover available in France for vehicles.
    For instance, My Guzzi V11Sport under RC is 120 euros a year, including
    assistance. For a 350 Jawa, I pay 55 euros a year.
    La Bete des Vosges (Francis Chartier), Apr 21, 2009
  13. the man with no idea

    Pete Fisher Guest

    In communiqué <gskgns$e6l$>, "La Bete des
    So it seems. Apparently a few participants found that they wouldn't be
    covered. If it wasn't clear from their normal paperwork the VCF asked,
    in advance, for a letter of confirmation from their insurance company.

    All very different to the UK (so far as track days are concerned at

    They may have been being particularly cautious as Charade (at least in
    2006) wasn't allowed by the FFM to host bike racing - too much Armco.

    | Pete Fisher at Home: |
    | Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest * 2 Yamaha WR250Z |
    | Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
    Pete Fisher, Apr 21, 2009
  14. Le Tue, 21 Apr 2009 14:27:21 +0100, Pete Fisher a écrit :
    I did several track days at Le Vigeant Pau-Arnos and Nogaro, covered by
    my RC without any problems.
    Or the VCF was just more cautious to cover his ass?

    Anyway when you crash your toy during a track day, you just drag the
    pieces at home and it makes occupation for some pleasant winter evenings,
    or some dosh from ebay. :)
    La Bete des Vosges (Francis Chartier), Apr 21, 2009
  15. the man with no idea

    Pete Fisher Guest

    In communiqué <gskjgd$e6l$>, "La Bete des
    Le Vigeant isn't far from my place, but I haven't ridden it properly
    yet. I keep meaning to ride a GFR at the Trofeo Rosso for a laugh. When
    I did a 'parade' on the Guzzi outfit there I found it not a very
    'natural' track, though I understand it is considered by some to be a
    very well designed circuit technically.
    Probably. As I understand it Responsibilite Civile cover is much more
    widespread in France. For example, you are legally required to have your
    house insured AFAIK. Clubs may have to be careful not to lay themselves
    open to personal injury claims as the organisers, as it might, in
    theory, end up with officials facing bankruptcy. There was a very
    awkward claim against the Italian Motorcycle Ownere Club in the UK,
    after an incident at a track day organised by them. As far as I know it
    turned out OK in the end, but I think I'm right in saying that they have
    never hired a circuit since then. Some years ago, though, before there
    were many, if any, commercial track days
    Heh, I can't see my Voxan fetching much TOGged out on Ebay, even

    | Pete Fisher at Home: |
    | Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest * 2 Yamaha WR250Z |
    | Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
    Pete Fisher, Apr 21, 2009
  16. the man with no idea

    BGN Guest

    <Travel hat>

    Travel insurance covers you from the moment you take out the policy
    until the moment you shut the front door when you get back home.
    </Travel hat>

    There may be exclusions from the policy (never a good idea - get a
    better policy) but I think you're going to find it quite difficult to
    cover what most people are going to think of as 'racing'.
    BGN, Apr 21, 2009
  17. the man with no idea

    BGN Guest

    If he does bin it on the ring then the cost of the vehicle is likely
    to be pennies when compared to him having to shell out for medical
    treatment. I know the following may sound rather OTT but it's not
    unknown for people to have to sell their homes to cover their medical
    bills, and it's really, really, really expensive to ship a corpse back
    home. So expensive that it is often cheaper to leave the corpse in
    the country of death and for the family to visit ten times a year.
    BGN, Apr 21, 2009
  18. the man with no idea

    Adrian Guest

    Wouldn't an EHIC cover it, though?
    Adrian, Apr 21, 2009
  19. the man with no idea

    BGN Guest

    He doesn't state whether he has a EHIC, but cover in Germany looks
    good if you only see 'State Scheme' doctors/services with your EHIC:


    Seems quite simple for state scheme stuff, €10 for a Doctor, €10 a day
    in hospital, €10 for an ambulance, €10 for an air ambulance, €10 for a

    "You should be careful not to sign a form agreeing to private

    If he can't get insurance cover which specifies Nurburgring then he
    could take out a policy for the whole trip, which doesn't mention
    going on a spontaneous lap around a racetrack which wasn't planned
    before travel.

    However, even if he does have an EHIC his insurance company won't
    cover him when anything happens to him on the ring. Therefore if he
    really hurts himself (or someone else hurts him) then it may well cost
    'just' €10 for stuff but the (private) transfer from the hospital to
    the airport might be a tad expensive, booking 10 seats out on a flight
    for him as he has to lay down on a board over them, the non-standard
    check-in and transport through the airport, medication on the flight,
    paying for the the (private) doctor and nurse to accompany him, their
    trip from the hospital in Germany to the hospital with him in the UK
    and their hotel in the UK plus their trip back to Germany and their
    homes is going to be the most expensive trip he's ever, ever made. Oh,
    and then stick on top the cost of his family staying extra time in
    Germany, lost earnings while away from work in Germany in hospital,
    storage fees for the vehicle in Germany, paying import duty for it to
    be written off in Germany (your vehicle insurance is not going to
    cover it on a race track, even 3rd party) then scrapping fees or
    transport/recovery of it back to the UK including ferry/train fares.
    You get the picture.

    However he might not bother doing the ring without insurance, or just
    skip it. Or he might be fine. But it's expensive if it goes wrong in
    a bad way.

    People here know my profession in the travel biz and I've had to deal
    with various aspects of the above but if someone knows better then the
    FOAK hat can be passed on to someone else.
    BGN, Apr 21, 2009
  20. Le Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:06:07 +0100, Pete Fisher a écrit :
    I probably go to Trofeo Rosso just to watch this year, and meet some
    Guzzisti and ducatisti friends.

    Yous could try to go at the "Journées Coyote" on August 8/9 at Nogaro. It
    is organized by the Coyote Racing Team.

    It is all about classical bikes and outfits, it's a lot of fun, less
    sedate than Trofeo Rosso. :)
    There are somme really interesting parts, but I prefer Pau-Arnos.

    One can't tell: I got a Paioli fork from a 2003 Cafe-Racer for my Guzzi
    V11Sport. It came brand new from the factory, purchased via Fournalés,
    much cheapness since they don't use them since 2005. :)
    La Bete des Vosges (Francis Chartier), Apr 22, 2009
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