Anyone ever had need to sue a hospital?

I know I rarely post here and what I do post is usually drivel.
However I need some advice and there seems to be some in here who have
the right knowledge.

We are considering sueing our Hospital. However, morally, should we
and do we have a case? Our views are a bit coloured at the moment so
an outsiders opinion would be apprecieated.

A long story, as short as possible. My wife was taken very ill at the
beginning of the year. No-ones fault, Ulcerative Colitus - her large
intestine was full of ulcers that ruptured into her abdomen. Her life
was saved by our hospital who performed a miracle; 6 hours of surgery
with an 80% mortality rate expected, large intestine removed, long
recovery time with 9 weeks in hospital in all. Not yet fully recovered
now. Pimms all round. Hoorah!

Fast forward to today. Last week she had an x-ray for a chest
infection that won't go away. 3 days ago she was phoned by our GP to
say she had found that a "wire" had been left inside her after the
operation. [Cue worry.] As well as fluid in both lungs.

Within an hour she had an appointment with the hospitals top
cardiologist for 9am the next day. [Double the worry!] We were there
all morning. Scans and ECG's show a failing heart, but treatable.
[Multiply her worry many times!] This helps to explain her weakness,
swollen legs, fluid in lungs, slow recovery etc. Cardiologist says no
obvious reason for hearts bad condition. (SWMBO is 45 btw.)

The X-ray shows that a "guide wire" was used during her operation and
lost. This wire goes from her Femoral artery up through her heart and
out into her neck.

Attempts were made to remove it today (Friday), but failed. Both of
her femoral veins cut to try but the wire seems to be embedded in the
wall of the vessel as it's been there so long. She is being referred
for another possible attempt at another hospital, date to be arranged.

Older X-rays also show this wire. Unofficially we are told that it has
been seen in the past but no action has been taken. "But don't say I
told you that."

The wire going through the heart is not in itself a problem aparantly.
Pacemaker wires do this all the time and multiple wires can be in a
heart after several changes they say. This wire is over 1m long
however and runs the length of her body.

The resulting problems I can immideatly think of are, in no particular
order;

Fear of dying.

Just as she was healing comes a new series of traumas and pain.

If it's left then it will attract a build up of muck on the wire. This
could break off leading to stroke / heart attack. (Cardiologists
comment.)

Removal could dislodge the same muck and cause the same problems.
(Cardiologists comment.)

She has a failing heart needing pills etc for the rest of her life.
(Cardiologists comment.) May not be the fault of the wire, but might
it be?

Reduced life expectancy?

So, I know there are NHS people here. Advice please? I don't want to
be ungrateful to the people that saved Janets life, they did say at
the time that there was an 80% mortality rate and they pulled her
through. For that we are grateful.

However, she is now facing more problems that could and should have
been prevented. At the time of the operation, if an attempt to
retrieve the wire wasn't possible then it should have been arranged
for as soon as possible after. When it was seen in past X-rays it
should have been actioned, as urgently as it is being now. Both being
major failures IMHO which have lead directly to the current worries.

We know that she is NOT going to suddenly die due to this. 99% likely
not, anyway. But she probably has a reduced life expectancy and
reduced quality of life.

Sensible advice gratefully recieved. We are going to request copies of
all her records (3 folders of them!) before we proceed with anything,
if indeed we do.

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/pages/1309.as...uk/chq+-+1309?CategoryID=68&SubCategoryID=160

I've hummed and ahhed for a couple of hours about posting this. But
what the hell, let's go for it. Your opinions please?

Mike.

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Mike Barnard

<Snip>

Jesus mate, that sounds bloody awful!

I'm speaking from a position of not having been there, so treat
everything I say accordingly.

I really don't see the point in taking money out of the NHS (easy for me
to say, I know). But I would want to see that lessons were learned from
this.

In your position I would want to know *exactly* what was being done, and
by whom, to ensure that there should be no repetition. I would want
regular progress updates. And I would sure as shit want a personal
apology.

If that means retraining, so be it. If it means someone incompetent
loses their job, again so be it.


--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - "He's hopeless, but he's honest"

I have already made the greatest contribution to the fight against climate
change that I can make: I have decided not to breed. Now quit bugging me and
go and talk to the Catholics.

 

Forget that they did an excellent job of saving her life, if they've
made a mistake and ignored chances to discuss it with your wife
they're in the wrong and you should sue them.

They'll have insurance cover so it's not as if they'll have to thin
out a few nurses to cover the costs and if this is going to cause your
wife problems over the years she should receive compensation.

Btw, I don't have 'the right knowledge', I'm a mechanical engineer who
knows **** all about hospitals but if they fucked with my life I'd
expect them to pay for it.

 

They may not have an insurance policy as such IF they are still covered
by the old "crown estates" mechanism. Effectively it means that they are
"insured" by the Treasury and it will be accounted against the trusts
annual budget.

I should think that it would be quite in order to get a second opinion
from another expert in the relevant fields. It may be worth starting
here too;

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/patient-advice-and-liaison-services/Pages/De
finition.aspx

 

I think the 'morally' depends on why you're thinking of doing it. If
it's for punishment or revenge, I'd say they're the wrong reasons.
However if the money would mean you could both bugger off for an
extended rest in a tropical paradise that would help you both get over
the stress of all this, it sounds fine to me. The fact is they /did/
**** up, & just because they did something else well doesn't mean you
should cut them some slack. It doesn't work like that when dealing with
peoples' lives.

 

The NHS self insures so unless it was a private consultant it is tax money.

This one is pretty clear. If they knew it was being left in so you should
have been told all about it and all the risks explained.

You need to demand a Medical Review by the hospital Clinical Director and
that must be in the public domain and new procedures need to be implemented.
I do not mean gutter press review.

Second, you need to recruit lawyers, not to SUE the hospital but to
confidentially negotiate financial compensation for the time trouble and
pain your wife will suffer.

 

Best go and see a solicitor who specializes in medical neglience , there needs to be
independant medical evidence gained to support your case and its likely the
solicitor will seek advice from a barrister as to the possible outcome and any
mitigating factors

Hope it all turns out for the best

steve

 

I've worked in the NHS for getting on for 40 years, but not in the
areas your wife has had to deal with. Yes they cocked up, anyone can
make an error. BUT the way in which they have dealt with it is
deplorable. I fully agree with WUN's comments above, but can also see
value in Krusty's comment about about the need for some sort of
recompense to manage any future problems and also to take a break. Re
the insurance issue I think('ish) that the NHS is not insured and does
lose vast sums of money each year in claims, thereby reducing the cash
available to treat others.

In addition to complaining/sueing the initial hospital you may want to
consider directing complaints to appropriate medical/surgical and/or
nursing registration bodies, ie BMA and NMC. Should there be an
incompetent prat out there, that needs to be addressed. There is also
the Parliamentary and NHS Ombudsman's service, details on Open Gov.
The suggestion of a second opinion not by a local bod but perhaps by
the somewhere like the London Heart and Chest Hospital (that may not
be the precise name but very close) could be helpful and perhaps they
may have greater expertise.

Whatever your decision I hope you get a decent result.

Brian

 

My Nasty Bastard Lawyer friend has done just this, successfully (botched
baby delivery left the kid permanently disabled).

Email addie is in the sig.

 

I'd go with this too, I think my initial approach would be to kick up
the mother of all fuss with both the most senior person in the
hospital and also the director of the local PCT. I'd make sure I used
the words negligence and duty of care somewhere in that communication.

I'd also write letters to my local MP, and Andy Burnham MP - Secretary
of State for Health, explaining that something needs to be done to
make sure this kind of thing is never allowed to happen again in the
hospital.

Then I'd see how high everyone jumped and work from there.

 

I stand corrected then.

It'd be a bastard if they had to cut contractors rates wouldn't it?

At last someone else agrees they should pay compensation.

I was beginning to think that while it's ok to claim for new leather,
helmet, gloves etc if you get knocked off your bike it's wrong to
claim if a hospital fucks your life up because it's the NHS and it's
tax payers money.

 

No No No

Consultant surgeons are highly skilled educated people and do not willingly
make mistakes but they are human. Operating theatres follow procedures but
they are all human.
The hospital will have processes to engage with you and to work out a fair
compensation plan.

 

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:58:12 +0100, Mike Barnard wrote:

Firstly I would like to add to the condolences and sympathy expressed.

Now the other point - first things first - avoid the stress of suing for
the time being and concentrate on getting her the best treatment
possible. Where are you in the country? If near the midlands try to get
her transferred for treatment to the Glenfield at Leicester - absolutely
top for heart stuff - best in the UK and probably the world.

Get the best treatment - take their advice on treatment and recovery,
then once the stress of getting her as well as possible is past, take
advice about compensation for the initial mistake and subsequent failure
to sort it out (there may have been good reasons for that - i.e. another
op to remove it while she was weak and recovering from the first issues
might have killed her).

The most important thing now is to get her well. Once that is done speak
to a solicitor if you still feel that it will help.

Remember, you might need compensation if her quality of live is damaged
in some way, but if it's not it might be a matter of just ensuring that
the Trust investigates the incident and learns from it.

You will (at that point) need to talk to a medical expert to find out if
leaving the wire in was a mistake or just expedient at the time - i.e.
they wanted to get her closed ASAP.

Take it one step at a time - and yes if there was a mistake and there was
no good reason for it not to be sorted earlier, plus her life is affected
then you should have some money to help relieve effects of that.

Good luck with this - whether you sue or not is irrelevant at the moment
- getting her well is the important thing. So keep the stress levels
down and concentrate on her.

 

Yes and no NHS Trust thinks that people should not be compensated for pain
and quality of life issues when a *real* mistake is made.

But I feel everyone should try and stop the bottom feeding legal fraternity
making more out of it than the patient. Whem someone sues the costs will be
a minimum of £100k per side, 250 per is common and 500 if one side digs in.

 

Not the PCT - although they are the commissioning trust the treatment
will have been in an Acute Trust - so stick to the Medical Director there.

Take it one step at a time. See if the Trust's medical director can sort
it out first.

 

Avoid ambulance chasers and consult a proper medical negligence
solicitor. Your own solicitor should be able to point you towards a
local expert. It's not so much taking money for current pain and
injury but to cover potential further treatment, to maybe allow you to
stop work and care for your wife if she's left too unwell etc. And in
the worst case to allow you to be able to bring up any children
without having financial worry on top of everything else.

 

Mike Barnard wrote:

Totally seperate, but my own experience of medical fuckups. My Dad got
slowly but surely worse with abdominal pain & a problem eating generally at
71. He went to see his GP 10-15 times to be told every time he had a stomach
upset or something else. It got to the point he couldn't eat & was in sever
discomfort. I didn't know any of this at the time.

The GP failed, in an over 60YO Male to recognize any such bowel type problem
has to be taken very seriously. It wasn't & by the time I found out what was
going on, he had been diagnosed with bowel cancer, he had an op that didn't
help, he then was diagnosed with Liver cancer & it went to his brain & he
died very quickly.

The GP was fucking useless, i reckon we could have sued him, but my Dad was
dead, what's 20 grand for your parents life? The doctor didn't cause the
illness, but could have sorted it a lot quicker. We could have sued, but it
wouldn't have made any difference to the outcome timewise. If my Dad had
been fucked up by the doctors stupidity & needed extra care & costly
nursing, I would have sued them fucking blind.

Money won't help you forget the trauma, only time can do that & spending
years fighting over a few quid wont help you get *your* life back on track.

Obviously, you have a different story, but don't do it for the money, as
that is the wrong reason unless you need it.
--


Nige,

BMW K1200S (for sale)
Range Rover Vogue
Suzuki GSX-R600 Racebike (for sale)
Honda ST1100 Pan European

 

2 different things. The mistake was leaving the wire in, and I accept
that mistakes can happen. However the negligence was everything that
happened after the first time it was subsequently noticed and ignored,
and IMHO that needs knuckles to be rapped.

I'm obviously too used to only being able to get things to happen by
involving someone about 8 levels above where the work actually needs
to be done. Not sure I agree on leaving it just to the hospital
either as personally I'd want somebody from outside the hospital
independantly auditing what happened from start to finish, and making
sure the mistake couldn't reoccur. That's regardless of any
compensation, which could only be worked out once the long term
outlook is known.

 

That's quite a different case, repeated failures of care and concern and by
a GP over an extended period. In those situations someone really needs
prosecuting. TBF if I didn't get some action after a second visit I'd be off
elsewhere. As you say, once the person is gone money might not be an issue
at all but I wonder how many other people the **** has killed. The range of
quality of GP's is quite a concern.

In matters like surgery a Consultant is on a career long learning curve. If
one is not prepared to accept the risks of human fallibility then one should
decline treatment.

Some Doctors/Consultants never reach an acceptible standard of competency or
it slips, that's why it is important to request a formal review. Trusts, the
BMA and others form a monitoring and mentoring umbrella. Though the system
isn't infallible and the arrogance of some Consultants is significant.

Some of them really can't cope with patients who cross examine them and
question their assertions ;o)

 

Well of course, and their will be if a mistake was made.

I'm not suggesting Trusts are either perfect or moral. I know one where MRSA
etc infection is allowed to go on because they implemented a recruitment
freeze including cleaning staff who are, in places, at 50% of required
headcount. They are trying to square the books and become a Foundation
Trust. People have already suffered.