BBC promoting snake oil

Discussion in 'UK Motorcycles' started by Simon Wilson, Mar 31, 2011.

  1. Simon Wilson

    Simon Wilson Guest

    I'm shocked to see Auvache's BBC promoting snake oil products that
    purport to save energy.

    They fitted a device that saves energy by "reducing the voltage in your
    house from 240V to 220V."

    F.F.S.
     
    Simon Wilson, Mar 31, 2011
    #1
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  2. Simon Wilson

    Veggie Dave Guest

    I saw that, it was a simple transformer that turned the house's
    electrical system into a 220V one.

    How does that not work?

    --
    Veggie Dave
    http://www.iq18films.co.uk

    "To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim
    that Jesus was not born of a virgin." Cardinal Bellarmine
     
    Veggie Dave, Mar 31, 2011
    #2
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  3. Simon Wilson

    Simon Wilson Guest

    Nearly everything requires a certain amount of watts to work. Watts =
    volts x amps. If you reduce the volts, then the amps increase - this
    applies to power supplies, low energy light bulbs etc. For other stuff
    with heating elements - kettles/toasters etc. it just takes longer to do
    the same thing, ultimately using the same amount of electricity. The
    only thing it saves is on ordinary light bulbs, which glow more dimly.
     
    Simon Wilson, Mar 31, 2011
    #3
  4. Simon Wilson

    ogden Guest

    Because a 100W device will just draw more current to compensate for the
    lower voltage. 100W is 100W is 100W.
     
    ogden, Mar 31, 2011
    #4
  5. Simon Wilson

    Simon Wilson Guest

    Nice. I could've saved all that typing.
     
    Simon Wilson, Mar 31, 2011
    #5
  6. Not that simplistic.

    Things that move will be the only ones liable to draw more current.

    Things that work by getting hot like kettles and toasters will, as others
    have stated, get less hot and draw less current but for longer.

    Things with clever power supplies that sample the mains on a needs basis
    like teleboxes and computers will perform exactly as they have performed
    before but in order to do so will draw their current for longer.
     
    steve auvache, Mar 31, 2011
    #6
  7. Simon Wilson

    ogden Guest

    Ultimately, the energy consumed will be the same, even if the rate at
    which the energy consumed is lower.

    A minute and a half to boil a kettle at 2KW or three minutes at 1KW, the
    amount of gas, oil or coal burnt to produce the juice is the same either
    way.
     
    ogden, Mar 31, 2011
    #7
  8. This is true for heating elements but not true for hot wire type light
    bulbs. Folks won't have the light on for an extra hour just to make up
    for what was missed by it glowing fewer brightly. So, in the case of
    those, there is a potential energy saving.

    The basic premise though that reducing your house voltage from 240[1] to
    220 as a primary means of saving energy is utter fucking bollox is still
    true.


    [240] I am no expert on high voltage transmission and stuff but I was
    always told the best you could expect as a domestic user was 240V at your
    nearest transformer and somewhat less than that from your socket. The
    value of somewhat depending, as ever, on how far away from the source you
    were. Nominal I think is the official term.
     
    steve auvache, Mar 31, 2011
    #8
  9. Simon Wilson

    ogden Guest

    No, but they might buy a higher-wattage bulb to make up for the loss of
    brightness.
     
    ogden, Mar 31, 2011
    #9
  10. Which is not good because it will mean more tax for the gummint to use to
    subsidise the decommissioning costs of nuclear reactors and if people
    think it is going to be cheaper then they will do it sooner while the
    gummint still has some money left for frittering on pointless gestures and
    then all our grandchildren will all die because of burning oil.
     
    steve auvache, Apr 1, 2011
    #10
  11. Simon Wilson

    Cab Guest

    Which is probably a moot point nowadays, as standard filament bulbs can
    no longer be purchased. Apparently.
    Quite.
     
    Cab, Apr 1, 2011
    #11
  12. Simon Wilson

    CT Guest

    I was rummaging in the crates in garage last weekend, looking for
    something or other, and came across a pack of six 100W light bulbs.

    Which was nice.
     
    CT, Apr 1, 2011
    #12
  13. Simon Wilson

    Catman Guest


    Not quite true, lower wattage ones are still available.


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    Catman, Apr 1, 2011
    #13
  14. Simon Wilson

    Cab Guest

    I thought it was all of them. But I appear to have been corrected.
     
    Cab, Apr 1, 2011
    #14
  15. Simon Wilson

    Ace Guest

    In some applications they're no longer available, but lower-wattage
    ones, and odd sizes, are still to be found on supermarket shelves.
     
    Ace, Apr 1, 2011
    #15
  16. Simon Wilson

    Jérémy Guest

    IRL it's probably less efficient at 1KW than at 2KW, as there's more time
    for heat loss to the environment, so you'll use more energy.
     
    Jérémy, Apr 1, 2011
    #16
  17. Simon Wilson

    Domènec Guest

    Have they invented the ideal lossless transformer?

    http://www.tpub.com/content/doe/h1011v4/css/h1011v4_56.htm
     
    Domènec, Apr 2, 2011
    #17
  18. Except that the transformer gadget will itself not be 100% efficient,
    likely wasting 5 to 10% depending on loading.
     
    Harry Bloomfield, Apr 2, 2011
    #18
  19. steve auvache formulated on Thursday :
    Again not true....

    An ordinary lamp bulb designed for 240v works at it most efficient for
    producing light, rather than heat, at its stated voltage. Reduce the
    voltage and more lights may then need to be turned on to produce the
    same lighting level.
     
    Harry Bloomfield, Apr 2, 2011
    #19
  20. Nothing to do with transformer but to do with sampling. Some devices
    doesn't need 240v 24/7 but can manage on small samples and a store. Reduce
    the supply voltage by 10% and the device will simply sample for longer to
    make up the shortfall in raw volts. The overall power it uses will change
    not a jot. Thus taking even more credibility away from those ignorant many
    who think that knocking the mains down 10% will of itself reduce energy
    consumption.
     
    steve auvache, Apr 2, 2011
    #20
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