Bike apprenticeships?

Hi All,

When I was about to leave school I bought an old Honda PC50 off a
teacher for a fiver. It had a stripped plug and she couldn't justify
getting it fixed at the shop so sold it to me. I made a tap out of an
old bigger plug and long story etc, it became my first wheels and I
was out on the road (legally for once) on my 16th birthday.

Six months later it was similar with an NSU 'Quickly' (26" wheel, 2
speed), found on someone garage floor in kit form (guy had died and he
wife let me take it away in their wheel barrow). ;-)

From there is was my Dad's old LD150 (sold to my Uncle when I was born
and he rode it till the drive shaft snapped) and then on, mostly
stuff I bought running .. Messerschmitt KR200, CG125, XT350, REB 350,
R100RS,T80 Townmate (don't ask), R100RT and now this CB "Two Fifty".

So as you can see from the list I've only ever ridden 'transport'
machines and in a sort of progression. I still don't need to ride a
bike (for commuting etc) but we don't think twice about loading up
the bikes (my R100RT n her XV750) and bike / camping around the UK for
a couple of weeks or going out for a couple of hundred miles when we
feel in the mood and get the time.

Now Daughter is 17, took her CBT on a cheap Piaggio 125ST (it found
us), passed her theory last week (49/50 - 61/75?) and yesterday did
about 30 miles on a loaned 07/2k mile Huyang 125 (CG125 a-like made
under licence to Honda in China I believe?).

So, she really liked the Huyang compared with the TAG scooter (better
ride / handling and more involvement) and I might be able to get it
fairly cheap with a trade in on the Scooter?

Now, whilst I'm happy for her to take on the CB250 once she's got her
licence, I'm wondering if it would be 'better' for her to spend some
more time on a smaller bike first (she's not a 'big' girl), do her
bike apprenticeship so to speak?

And could that be the Huyang or should it be an older CG / SR etc?

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. I'm hoping she can get some miles under her belt on the geared
bike so that bit becomes more instinctive, then put her in for one of
the 3/4 days > test deals?

 

I wouldn't advise buying the Huyang. As this is her first bike, she is
very likely to drop it sooner rather than later, and I think you'll
find even the most basic spares very hard to find locally. As an
exercise, just try ringing a few local bike shops and asking for a
headlight, front brake lever and maybe a throttle cable.

Also, the quality of a lot of these Chinese copies is really, really
dire. The Chinese will be a force in bikes, for sure, but they just
ain't there yet, whereas Taiwanese and Korean manufacturers are
progressing very fast and are producing bikes which are quite
acceptable by Western standards.

If she passes her test, let her hop on the CB250. It's a perfect first
bike, really. Soft, unthreatening, bullet-proof (my son runs a CD250
which has the same engine, albeit twin carb so a bit zippier),
economical and pretty crash-proof. It's also got just enough
performance to cope with motorways and dual carriageways. Hell, when I
were a lad, 250s were learner bikes anyway....

 

TOG@Toil wrote:

I think Tim might mean 'Hyosung', in which case spares are cheap and
plentiful. They're not that badly built either.

Tim, stop being so protective over your daughter, just let the girl go
out and ride alone and learn her skills the way we all did. Following
someone around in the car does nothing to help confidence, it just
makes someone feel like they're being scutinised all the time. it's not
like you following her is going to stop any incidents occuring, they
are going to happen if you're there or not. All you're doing is
restricting her sense of freedom, which is a big part of why alot of us
ride bkes. She's 17, stop treating her like a little kid.

--
Lozzo the velologist
Suzuki SV650S K5
Honda CBR600 FW trackbike
Yamaha SR250 Spazz-Trakka
Suzuki GSXR750 L
Suzuki TS50X
Suzuki TS50X

 

I vote the CB250.

 

Ah ..

Ok and good plan. I'll start by asking the shop I borrowed it from,
known em a long time and generally get the truth.

Oh ok. And are the current CG's made in Brazil (was it) still? Are
they any good do you think?

Good points and the only issue being her size. Even the little Huyang
is heavy for her (when wheeling it about in confined spaces etc) but I
guess that will also come with practice / experience. I've always been
'a tall lad' and reasonably strong so little has ever got the better
of me (I could even flat foot the XT350) ;-)

;-)

Thanks for your thoughts though TOG. We were due to take one of the 11
SR125's he bought in second hand recently but I believe there have all
sold ... petrol prices maybe?

All the best ..

T i m

 

Yeah, you might want to wait a while before letting her loose on
something as big and fast as a CB250.

C'mon, at 17 I had a derestricted TZR125 which was at least as quick as
a CB250. I kept falling off it, mind (catching up with old mates on
Facebook recently has reminded me that at one point I acquired the
nickname Stacktrick, which illustrates my propensity to drop it far
better than any simple anecdote could) but I came through reasonably
unscathed.

 

Yeah, cos you're the epitome of safe and sensible riding, aintcha?

 

Never been banned.

Yet.

 

True, but you've got so many points that if you'd given them to Leeds
United they could have got automatic promotion!

 

Sorry, my bad, Wuyang (old age and memory).

Ok, well that wouldn't work because she would get lost within 3 miles
of this place. Why, because she hasn't had the need to get about on
her own and unlike you (and I) can travel a journey several times and
still have no idea where she is.

Not in this case it isn't, I rarely actually comment on how she's
riding (leaving that to the instructors) but she will ask 'How am I
doing' without considering herself as being under scrutiny. I am
simply there for support (and companionship). We often combine our
practice rides with some lunch at the local biker stop or on an errand
to get something else (for me).

True, generally, but FWIW, the car was just a stop gap, I'm on the
CB250 now.

With respect, I'm grateful for the feedback but you would have to know
this girl before you were able to come to that conclusion. She is
actually very capable (the Instructor was very impressed with her
overall abilities for her first time on the road on a geared bike) but
she isn't very confident. Whilst I would be more than happy to let her
do a route she knows [1](so that restricts her to about 3 routes and 2
miles) *she* would not want to go anywhere else on her own atm.

I don't feel I am. Ok, at 15 I was playing with cars, mopeds, bikes,
rode to school / college on a cycle then moped, went all over the
place exploring, cycled round the country with a cycle club etc etc.

She hasn't had the same background, isn't made of the same material
and I don't believe with the current traffic conditions and driver
attitudes it's as easy as it was for us. On the 20 mile trip home
yesterday with me on her scooter and her instructor, she stalled the
bike pulling away from some local lights (1st time on that trip).
Within seconds I heard hooting from some inpatient car driver. ;-(

Also, I'm not sure where you live but we are in traffic within 50m of
our front door (Nth London).

All the best ..

T i m


[1] Only because we do want her to come home afterwards!

 

I had this exact same worry with my girlfriend, (5 foot 8, weighs around 6
stone, a rake looks fat compared to her

she started out on a peugeot vivacity 100, weighed nothing (sub 100 kilos i
believe), she found it big and heavy... at first,

then we got a sukida commander 125, the heaviest 125 scoot they (sukida)
make... something like 150 kilo's wet, she found that far too heavy... for
about a week, now she throws it around better than the peugeot, she could
almost get her knee down on corners, something i never did, i didnt feel
safe leaning it too far.... prolly cos my manboobs are bigger than her
breasticles, so i'm more top heavy.. higher CoG and all that

I recently got a honda transalp, she's keeping the scoot for now, taking her
test and will get a 'real' bike then.. i.e. not one of these shite chinkie
abortions.

For the first 2 weeks i owned the transalp, it felt heavy as ****, i'm not a
weedy man, but i do have joint problems (and not the type you smoke)
manouvering it was physicaly hard for me,

but now, it feels like an extention to my body when i'm on it, and unless i
think about it, it's hardly there, i soon learnt how to handle the weight
and the position of the weight... bike before the transalp was a virago 535,
prolly the same weight, but it was all very low down, and totaly different
riding position with the forward controlls and ape hangers etc, the trannie
just felt like it wanted to topple over all the time, but that makes it a
lot more flickable now im used to the weight.

 

Ok .. seems like the best solution eh.

Thanks.

T i m

 

Hyosung are definitely OK. But there is a Chinese maker called Huyang.

What he said.

 

They've been built in Brazil for roughly a quarter of a century. The
early ones were a bit iffy, but they're fine now.

<Makes Sign of Holy Pushrods>

I'd still vote for the 250, though.

 

T i m wibbled:

Nice. Always wanted one of those.

I have a Heinkel Trojan awaiting restoration.

 

You forgot heavy Ogden? ;-)

But seriously, it's ok for us strong types (men / women) and I can put
my RT on the main stand whilst it's coupled to the trailer and with
the pillion still stilting aboard but she's not built that way. Quite
a few times so far the various bikes we have been playing with have
started to get away from her (whilst wheeling them about etc) and had
I not been there to grab them (often with one hand) it might have
ended in tears.

I'm sure you did and there are many like you. She has no issue (so
far) with speed or performance. Unfortunately we aren't all the same.
The missus went from a XV535 to an XV750 and dropped it (twice) at
slow speed (just caught her off balance). In both cases she was unable
to get it upright again, something I was able to do with ease? Being
in that position can't be good for your confidence can it and hence
the thought that sticking with a lighter bike to start with might have
some merits?

Luckily?

She has already tasted tarmac when she came off her PW50 when she was
about 7 years old. Took all the buttons off her leather jacket, had a
skin burn though her layers of trousers, wrenched her shoulder and saw
how full face helmets can save yer chin. It didn't put her off
motorcycling but did teach her she would rather not do it again.

I'm not sure I fully believe in this idea that throwing yer bike down
the road is something we all *should* do time to time. Like doing
capsize drill in a sailing dinghy .. I'd rather stay in the boat as it
was designed (and have done so for the last 30 years of sailing). ;-)

All the best

T i m

 

I suppose they had to find something to do with all those canopies in
the Messerschmidt and Heinkel yards.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

"It's a moron working with power tools.
How much more suspenseful can you get?"
- House

 

I can imagine Wernher Von Braun just arrived to the USA and being told at
Milwaukee "we do have the best V2 engines in the world, go away".

This misunderstood lead him to collaborate with other industries, and closed
very interesting opportunities to the motorcycle world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-2_rocket

 

Thanks. SFunny, when I bought it at 17 it was again just 'transport'.
A mate and I had one each and we both used to drive them pretty hard
and treat them like any other 'transport' we had at the time. That's
not to say you didn't have to know what you were doing with them. My
mate lent his mate his spare Schmitt and he's rolled it within a week.
:-(

Ah, the more classic bubble car. How far off being a runner is yours
Buzby? I actually drove mine into the lockup a good few years ago when
I got the MM Van.

It is on the list of projects though .. even if only for when we get
too old to ride bikes ..:-(

All the best ..

T i m

 

Aww bless ;-)

Ok ..

Well, I get yer drift but there is static weight and dynamic weigh
(for want of the more technical term). I'm pretty sure our daughter
could *ride* her Mum's 750cc Virago but I'm pretty sure she couldn't
get it through the back gates and up onto the concrete without
dropping it on herself. AFAIC, being able to do so is what determines
if someone is in full control of a bike or not (and not even that you
can't lift it back up once you have dropped it).

Ok ;-)

Ok ..

Understood.

My Mrs is 5'6" and has just had one knee replaces and the other isn't
brilliant. I got her to ride the R100RT a while back with this fb on
the back. She only did so on the understanding that I put my feet down
whenever we stopped. Well, we stopped a few times at the lights etc
and I didn't put my feet down once. <weg> However, there is NO CHANCE
she could get it into it's berth at home without chucking it on the
floor. I'm pretty sure she couldn't even get it on it's stand and
that's my point, all this stuff is ok when it's rolling and often of
when you are sitting on it on a nice flat bit of tarmac, it's when it
get's the better of you on an incline, or baulks and you are pushing
it up a small kerb or ramp when most people who don't have that extra
bit of muscle can't cope.

So (and back to my first thought / question) and considering that I
don't consider the risk of dropping a bike when I'm just wheeling it
about acceptable, nor having something that might just pull away from
you quicker than you were ready (when you say miss a gear at the
lights, give it a handful, panic and drop the clutch) a good step in
the learning process?

However, if say the CB250 is only a touch heavier [1] to maneuver and
about the same balance as say an SR125, CG125, YBR125 or Wuyang 125
then I don't mind getting her onto the CB250.

The Mrs did KH125, CG125, XV535 and XV750 and in truth the 750 is just
a bit too heavy for her [2](hence why I often maneuver it and put it
away). She's never had any issues with power or handling, partly
because she's moved up through the bikes over a few years and had been
a car driver for 30 years before riding a bike (so already understood
clutch / gears etc).

All the best ..

T i m

[1] In feel rather than actual 'weight'.

[2] She often can and does move her bike about herself but prefers
that I do it if possible as there is less chance (by a very large
factor) of me dropping and damaging it.