Are they really useful? Reason I ask is a pal of my son recently took his CBT and didn't actually get the certificate because he was totally useless on a bike and fucking fell off. A week or so later he goes back to do the CBT day again, this time getting the certificate. A week later he's been on a 3 day DAS course and taken his full bike test. Now he's fully licensed and looking for something BIG. Now I've watched this bloke ride and it's patently obvious he's as much a bike rider as I am a fucking astronaut, so how the hell did he get through the bike test? Is it REALLY that easy? -- Beav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19
I think 5th gear had a statistic on last week, something about the car pass rate being only 40-50%. Everybody I've talked to, see to say they took their test at the same time as one other student. One typically passed, the other failed. All the test is going to do is ensure you're not a danger to yourself or other motorist while riding normally. So keep to the speed limit, control the bike, plenty of checks and life savers, don't forget your indicator All done on a nice and controlled 500CC bike at hopefully 10:30 on a weekday. I guess the problem is you can then go out and ride anything. I'm still happily riding a 500CC, but it strikes me that it would take a lot more still and experience to ride a faster/sports bike than a faster/sports car. But what can you do? It's already staggered to get a licence. Either restrict bikes or has an Advanced DAS? Tim B
I've head of a few people who didn't pass. My instructor was telling me of a couple of people he couldn't take off the car park and had to book another CBT. For 16-17 year olds without an existing licence, he would only allow a 2 day course. Says they develop technical ability really quickly, but have no road sense. I don't think you need to pass your theory to take a CBT. Which probably explains why my biggest concern when commuting is getting a young lad on scooter weaving around behind me *shudder*. Tim B
This just proves my point that DAS is a pile of shit designed to take money from the terminally stupid. I'd raise the price by at least a grand and make the training take a few days longer and maybe (only maybe) the standard would go up a bit. Having seen the standard of some post DAS riders I'd have to say it must be. My experience of riders who've gone through DAS is that the majority are rather poor for at least the first year of having a full licence.
Same as any other qualification. Learning to pass a test is no proof of competance as anyone who has employed a compsci graduate will confirm. The licencing system does not exist to produce competant riders, it was created to show that politicians were "doing something" about a problem reported in the newspapers. It provides employment for (un)civil servants and driving schools.
If the cap fits... My comments were aimed more at the riders who see their mates going out on sports bikes having fun and decide to go down the DAS route and then buy a sports bike so they can do the same. The problem then is that the learning curve is a hell of a lot steeper because the mistakes are being made on a bigger bike. These are skills that are better learned on a smaller bike where lightness and lack of outright speed are your best friends. I don't think they're a bad idea for any rider but they're still only really a day of 'follow up' training and the rider will have already been out there doing it for a while in most cases. That's me that is.
I don't even think that's legal. Had a lady where I used to work many years back. She used to drive the mile or two in holding the seat belt over her next to the clip, but not plugging it in. Bonkers. Then again, my Gran used to do this if you were taking her only a few miles up the road. Tim B
But the DAS is no different from the car test. Do a block, do a test, drive what you want. You might just as well say 'The car test is designed to take money from the terminally stupid'. Come to think of it, looking at the average car driver, that is in fact what happens.
Andy Bonwick posted: That extra grand would seriously discourage a lot of people, and might just sound the death-knell for motorcycling in this country. I agree that the training could do with being more extensive, but not more expensive (at least not to the degree you suggest). Personally I think DAS should only be an option for those who have ridden a 125 regularly for at least a year. How you'd prove that, I don't know, however. I did exactly that; took DAS lessons over about a month of weekends, passed my test and continued riding my CG125 (makes Sign of Holy Pushrods) for another 6 months before I could afford to buy a bigger bike. I agree with others that there is no better way to learn certain skills than on a smaller bike.
So the majority of learner car drivers do a block? That's news to me but maybe I'm not keeping up with the latest trends. The more obvious point is that probably less than 1% of new drivers get a sports car whereas a far higher percentage of post DAS riders will get a sports bike.
Would making DAS more expensive not push some riders towards riding a restricted bike for two years? It might make a few not bother at all but I think more would either spend the cash a course with more training or go down the restricted power route.
Andy Bonwick posted: Maybe. My own thoughts are that the whole learner process needs to be completely re-written; all test application forms should have to be countersigned by a licensed instructor, and the training schemes for all vehicle classes should include a minimum amount of time and specified instruction, similar to pilot's licences - motorcycles are of course the only class of vehicle that a learner can legally take on the road without an instructor or qualified person present, maybe that should be formalised. This might be open to abuse by instructors, but that can be addressed.
I don't think so. Quite a few women I know drive with their shoes off (my Mother being one of them). An ex-girlfriend was incredulous I could drive in boots.
Is it any different from the "olden days"? I passed my test in the "olden days" and have spent the last twenty three years pretty much consistently crashing and having heart attacks. The latest and, IMO, greatest example of my own **** wittedness is impatiently getting ready for an overtake on the Guzzi (needs a bit of winding up) by watching four cars in front in piss pouring rain on a windey 'A' road for the gap in oncoming traffic to launch past the queue - I hadn't noticed the van directly in front of me had stopped until I rammed it with said Guzzi. Cue burnt, me and lump hammer repairs last May. It has to be said I go quite fast whilst being an idiot.
When I were a lad you bought a provisional licence for a few shillings and proof of age. At 16 you could buy a moped, at 17 anything goes. No need to do a test, just slap L plates on and renew the provisional as many times as you like. The test was piss easy anyway so most people did it within a year or two. Just ride around the block and stop a bit smartish when the tester jumped out from behind a tree. OK, so they have make it a BIT harder but does it really make any difference ?.
DAS has little to do with it IMO. It's just that some people are naturally crap, and some people are naturally good at it. For instance, I've been riding for probably close to 35 years, on and off, and I'm still a danger to myself and other road users.
I think having CBT and DAS does. Instructors spend quite a lot of time nowadays explaining how to protect yourself from cars and lorries. I imagine that's made a difference.
Certainly an option, but as is doing a bike test on a week by week basis, or it was when I was there. There is nothing actually stopping them getting a sports car, it's simply cost. So the problem is not with the tests themselves, they are quite similar, but the people. What we need to do is make a top quality sports bike cost a hundred thousand pounds and problem solved. Don't get me wrong, I think it is an issue. I'd like to see something more in line with the German[1] system where you have to do hours on the road, on the motorway, and at night before you can even take your test, regardless of whether you have a car license or not, or indeed a '125' license. Pushes the cost to around 1-2 grand though. [1] Dog I never thought I'd ever say that!
