Bike will not start. Problem getting worse and worse. Help!

Can anyone suggest what's going on here...?

Bought a Honda VTR 250, 2nd hand in Apr 2006, it was 2 years old, with
11,000km on the clock. Apr 2006 ,12K service.

It was reliable all year, except it would not electric start on a
couple of cold mornings in 2006. I suspected the battery. 16K service
Jul 2006.

New battery: Jul 2006 (NB: could this have been a dud?) There was an
improvement at first, but it still failed to electric start in winter
2007, on the coldest days. 22K service Feb 2007. 32K service Jun
2007. 36K service Nov 2007. 42K service Apr 2008.

Often it failed to start on cold days in winter 2008 (once it needed a
bump start 5 mornings running). Apr 2008: a Honda dealer went over it
for a full day and found nothing wrong. They did admit it wouldn't
start properly. Fitted a new stator: Apr 2008. No significant
improvement. 48K service Sep 2008.

Now it needs bump-starting in summer. 3 times in one week (Jan 2009)
it needed a bump start, and the other 2 times it started normally.
When it starts right it roars into life after turning over twice.
When it goes wrong, it's always the same: the engine fails to catch
and it just turns over and over. Could it be choke/fuel?

It started OK this morning, so after 30 seconds, I stopped the engine
and tried again. It needed a bump start.

Once the engine has warmed up there is usually no problem starting it
for the rest of the day, even 9 hours later. Only exception was when
I went for 15 mins and it wouldn't start 3 hours later.

Any suggestions (apart from trade it in)?

 

Trade it in.

Try
- Coil(s)
- Crack in a solder joint that expands when heated - I'd be looking at
the starter path first but it could be elsewhere - battery terminals
etc. A complete bastard to find though

- Non functioning cold start injector if this motor has one (are they
carb or efi)

- malfunctioning temp sensor

- kill switch

JL

 

Yeah if it turning and turning but not firing then it's not your battery or
your stator.
Has it ever fired (or popped) when it's doing this dead turning or is it a
total non-event from ignition-switch on through to ignition switch back off
again? (or kill-switch if that's how you're starting and stopping)
If that's a "no" the culprit seems pretty obvious.
If it's sometimes popping and running a few revolutions then it all gets a
bit harder .....

 

No. Doesn't pop - even if I rev the engine before killing it on the
previous day. The only noise is the starter motor. What is the pretty
obvious culprit?

 

Oh, there is ONE thing I should also mention... I took it to a
different Honda dealer, on one occasion. I explained all the ins and
outs but the message that got passed to the mechanic was "problem
starting". The mechanic there messed around with the starter switch
and broke it. Occasionally the switch can get stuck in and if that
happens, the headlight goes out. The switch has been stuck in for
perhaps an hour in total. I don't know whether the starter motor
would have been turning while the light was off all that time
(earplugs) but I did experimentally blip the starter switch when the
engine was running and the starter motor DID turn over. Could I have
burned out something? I don't think so because the motor winding is
one long piece of wire isn't it? Either the starter motor would always
work or it would never work (?)

 

No. Doesn't pop - even if I rev the engine before killing it on the
previous day. The only noise is the starter motor. What is the pretty
obvious culprit?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OK so is it the kill switch or the ignition switch?
It's carbs right? If it bump-starts without trouble then forget
fuel/carbs/tap/choke etc. and stick with electrical.
When it runs fine and you turn it off but then it won't even pop the next
time; how did you turn it off/on?
THAT'S the switch I'd be looking at; cleaning the contacts, jiggling it and
then trying again, putting a bit of pressure onto it whilst trying it.
If the starter is spinning strongly every time you push the button then it's
not that button (whether it sticks in or not).
You're not in Brisneyland are you?

 

Well I'm not sure the bump start is without problems. When it gets
going it chugs along for several seconds and *then* picks up the
revs. On cold mornings it can rev a bit and then die away and stop.
that's why I thought it could be fuel. BTW - if I get to the bottom
it's hard work getting to the top of the hill.

As for cutting the engine, generally I use the kill switch, but it
doesn't seem to make any difference whether I turn off the ignition or
put the stand down in gear. I used to use the stand and park in gear,
now I park out of gear and use the kill switch. Makes no difference.
The problem is slowly getting worse.

 

This would suggest there is no problem with your battery or starter
motor.

Sounds electrical to me. When the starter motor is running battery
voltage drops by at least a volt, maybe two. If you have a weak
ignition system this will prevent you getting a spark. Cars found a
solution to this problem many years ago by fitting a resistor in line
with a 9V coil. When you hit the starter in your car it shorts out the
resistor whilst the starter motor is turning. This means the 9v coil
is getting around 10V. Without the resistor a 12V coil getting 10V
doesn't work very well. I had a Renault 12 once that always had
problems starting on a cold day and I modified it to a resistor
ignition.

Things to check.
Earth connections. From the battery to the frame, from the frame to
the engine. Take the coil out and sand the point where it contacts the
frame, also sand the frame in that spot. The coil mounting bracket on
bikes is usually mounted in rubber to avoid vibration. Check the earth
connection back to the frame.

Good luck.

Theo

 

You or your shop may have already done this and excuse me if I'm
patronising but:

To eliminate fuel as the problem get a nice tankfull of premium and
then turn the bike off and turn the petrol-tap off. (If there's no
"off" it's a vacuum tap and "on"is fine.)

No find the drain-screw in the bottom of your carb (generally a no2
Phillips-head on the side of the lowest part of the rear of the
carburettor.
If you don't know what the carb is follow the rubber fuel-line down
from the fuel-tap. It should be shiny and about 100mm high and
supported by large-diameter rubber hoses both ends.

The drain-screw will be real tight so use a correct-fitting
screwdriver and push it into the head of the screw real hard.
Watch the fuel as it runs out and look for dirt, rust and bubbles of
water.
When the fuel stops dribblein turn your fuel tap to "on" or
"prime" (vacuum tap) and watch the petrol flow out again.
when you're satisfied that it's clear and clean screw the screw back
in to stop the flow. (don't turn the fuel off or the carby will be
empty and harder to start)
If you got a decent or half decent flow your tap and fuel-filter(?)
are OK. If not clean them.

 

I'm with Theo
I had a similar earthing connection on my old cd250 and it exhibited
similar problems to yours.
In my case it turned out to be a loose negative terminal to the battery
Either way I think there's an earth leak somewhere on your bike.
check your cluch switch and sidestand switch for filth, rust etc.

 

Does the starter motor 'click' or does it spin up without spinning the
motor?

 

FIRST MISTAKE! CRAP BRAND

TYPICAL HAHAHAHAHAONDA SHIT

TAKE-STRAIGHT-TO-TIP-OR-SIMS-METAL

YOU WILL ONLY GET 5 CENTS, WHY BOTHER?