BMW versus Goldwing versus ?? Ease of Maintenance

I have a V-Twin that I work on myself for all minor and major repairs.

In the next year or two, I'll be trading-up to a touring bike. I was
at a motorcycle repair shop recently to look over some work being done
on my wife's bike. The wrench had a Goldwing apart for a trike
conversion. The techs (be9ng Harley-centric) were amazed at the
number of parts and pieces they needed to remove to get at the drive
shaft, etc.

This got me thinking: will my wrenching days be over if I get a BMW
or Goldwing tourer? Will I need more tools and other equipment if I
decide to get one of these big-name tourers?

TIA for any tips, suggstions, comments.

Manjo Kaw 1500A V-Twin

 

Either will have a mess of parts to remove. Cost wise, either will set you
back a bunch of dough should you need parts. Friend's Gold Wing (GL1800)
got hit by some debris that flew out of the back of a pickup truck. Cost
nearly $6000 in pieces and several days ripping stuff off and putting back
on.

BMW can amount to same. A lot of the plastic is, well, overpriced. Some
knockover at a gas pump can cost up to $3500 in damages really quick. The
Honda may have better guards against a tip-over than a BMW which seems
inadequate unless it is a patrol-bike model. Still, I personally don't care
for Honda as they seem rather soulless, imho. They do things well but
bland.

You may be able to get a better deal on parts form Honda as their dealer
network is far larger than BMW and some dealers tend to be hungry. BMW's
network is far smaller and you may have to look further to get parts (i.e
Chicago BMW) cheaper. The dealer distance thing can be a BIG problem with
BMW.

I will note that BMW over the past decade seems to have had a lot of
metallurgical problems with their bikes (i.e input tranny shafts, clutch
splines, rear drive failures, etc). Lots of seal issues too that require
breaking into the tranny case to get some of them out (installed from the
inside). They tended to do things odd, and still may, like put lower
operating temperature rubber seals (instead of higher operating temp Vitons)
over things like a scaldingly hot catalytic converter. Eventually they
harden and leak. I was quoted better than $2000 for a spline lube at a LA
dealer (ended up doing it myself with some wrenching advice from the BMW
boards). Saved money, but downtime was several weeks acquiring parts
(seals) that seemed to crop up everywhere which created further delays and
250 mile trips to the <local!> dealer.

Good luck wrenching on the new bike. Oh, get a manual with either.

B~

 

YIKES! Sounds like a lot of pieces, expenses, and downtime with either
bike.

I have "tools" and can do some welding. I have an ATV jack, too. I'm
just not sure I have the patience.

My thanks to you both for your replies. They will go into the
"resource" files for futher review.

Manjo

 

I'm surprised you needed seals for a spline lube and that you're not
ordering for overnight shipment. On the older airheads, a spline
lube takes a matter of hours. Also helps to have three good dealers
and a really good independent within an hour's drive.

I like the old airheads better than the new BMWs, partly
because they've got a genuwine frame and no computer modules
but would definitely go with a BMW GS rather than the wing,
at least until I'm a couple decades older.

 

Part of the problem with many BMW oil heads is the pumping of oil from the
leaky rear seal up through the clutch pushrod which allows oil to seep onto
the clutch friction material. Then the high RPM clutch slippage occurs. I
didn't expect to find 3 of 5 seals leaking either. BMW plastic seems to
hide a lot of problems well. The job turned out to be around 2 weeks and I
could see how they would like to charge better than $2000 to work on them.

I wish I could get seals overnight, but a problem with BMW is the seal
numbers stamped on the seals aren't easily read unless the transmission is
split and the seals installed from the inside removed. I did order all
Viton seals from back east for two-day shipment when I got into the damn
job. Unfortunately I measured all diameters from the outside of the
transmission not knowing that they were installed form the inside and were
larger than the dimensions as taken from the outside. So I ended up driving
250 miles and getting the stock (i.e. cheap-ass) seals from the dealer.
Maybe if I keep the bike a couple of years more and break it down again I'll
do the Viton seal job then. I kept the old ones to get the measurements and
numbers off of just in case.

Yeah, I feel about the same towards the Wing. It's got that stigma of being
an old geezer's bike. Unfortunately, old geezer's usually drop the
overweight thing at impromptu times. May as well take two wheels off an
Accord and call it a Wing.

I hope the newer generation of BMW hexheads and their newer oil-bath
clutched 1200 four cylinder hold up better...for the sake of the marquee.

B~

 

On the airheads, there's also a seal around the pushrod itself. Did you
have to worry about reshimming the box afterwards too ? That's
supposed to involve lots of rituals, incantations, sacrifice of a
chicken, etc. One other nice thing about the older ones is that you can
find owners lists with lots of folks who have BTDT.

 

Not really. I just left them out.

Actually, I found some small donut-sized ones in the mud after I washed out
the inside of the tranny case. (!####!) I think they were against the input
shaft bearing. Since it pretty much was an interference-fit bearing, I
figgered "Oh, what the hell!" since it was already together and worked far
better than previously. I hate it when parts are found later on.

Air turned lovely shade of purple when I found those shims after-de-fact.
Is that the incantations you speak of?

True. I used the BMW site as well.

Mack

 

For airheads, Isettas and other strange older stuff, there's a guy
name of Ed Korn who puts out a transmission rebuild video
and makes some really ingenious special tools at a fraction
of factory prices. He'd definitely be a starting point if I waded
into a job like that. Also, a parts and maybe a workshop CD.

 

I ride a Kawasaki Voyager, so I can't comment on these other touring
bikes. You'll have to expect to spend more time on any touring bike
than a big twin, I would think, simply because there is the extra
tupperware to remove before you get to the guts of it. Then, you're
usually faced with four cylinders, carbs, fuel injectors, whatever,
instead of your normal single carb and two cylinders on the cruisers.
That pretty well automatically translates into more work. Doesn't mean
you can't do it yourself, though. You'll eventually get really fast at
removing the plastic parts to get at the ones that count.

I HAVE heard, however, that it takes half a day to get to something on
the Wing that takes 10 minutes to get to on the Voyager.

Paul Harris

 

I agree that the extra stuff that needs to be removed to get at even
the simple stuff, will make additional work. I'll need to do more
research to figure out if a BMW or GW tourer is the way to go. I'll
also take a look at the Voyager.

I did look at a Concours and found the bars too far forward for my
short arms to be confortable.

Thanks,

Manjo

 

How about the Honda Pan-European? I'd much rather have one of those.
Owners seem quite fanatical about them.

Leon

Leon

 

Leon,

I never knew the Pan-European was out there. The specs are great, and
the bike looks good, too. I wonder what the gas mileage is? Anybody
familiar with long distance rides (>2000 miles)? I think I may have
seen at least one of the ST's on the 2005 Iron Butt competitors list.
I may have answered my own queston.

Ride safe and far,

Manjo

 

They are popular with some police forces here, unmarked, for catching
errant motorists and bikers. I had a chat with an owner once while we
were waiting for a ferry to France, and he reckoned that he could ride
it fast for eight hours a day, without any discomfort. I sat on one in
the local dealer's showroom, it felt just right.

I'd like one myself, if I had the money, although I think I'd keep my
SV1000S - it's more fun to ride.

Leon

 

I rode one (the old 1100, not the modern 1300) from London to the south
of France and back. Very comfy (seat is a tad hard, mind), very torquey,
very nimble, fairing doesn't quite work, but a serious BMW-bruiser just
the same.

About 40 (imperial) mpg, and a six (imperial) gallon tank. On the way
down I was shadowing an old CX500, cruising at 70, and managed 50mpg. I
was doing one refuelling stop to his two. The thing has an awesome
range.

On the way back, I was solo and maintaining 90-110. Fuel economy
worsened to about 35mpg: still good enough for 200 miles to a tankful.

 

Hi Manjo:

I'm the Voyager owner who responded earlier. I've got a friend who has
a Concours, and we switch bikes occasionally. You can buy "heli-bars"
for the Concours to bring them up and back a bit. While I LOVE the
Connie, I wouldn't have one for serious touring. Tons o' power, and
tracks like a dream, but the handlebars vibrate like a tuning fork (the
dreaded "Connie buzz), and I find the riding position a bit too
aggressive for the long haul. Also, you have to manually adjust your
valve tappet clearances, which is a major hassle.

I'm a huge Voyager fan, the Voy is one of the best of the many bikes
I've owned going back 40 years. The performance/price ratio is
definitely the best deal going. Downside(s): a bit outdated
technologically, and they ceased production in 2003, so only used
models are available, and parts might therefore start to get both
pricey and rare. Half the mechanics in Kawi shops have never worked on
one, as they didn't sell in huge numbers.

Good luck in choosing!

Paul Harris

 

I've seen a couple of Voyagers on the road that have caught my eye.
Each time I've had to ask the rider what it was and how they liked.
The Voyager is unique and I found it easy to confuse it with the older
tourers. Each rider was very happy with the bike and each bike was in
very good condition. I have a friend in TX that bought one last fall.
He'd been looking for one for a while.

He rebuilds KZ and other carbs and has a good line on parts and pieces,
so I figure he'll enjoy the bike for quite a while.

Ride safe,

Manjo

 

I'll look for it this spring for a sit and perhaps a test ride.

Thanks,

Manjo

 

Leon,

Thanks. I was in a cage when the wife and I were in Newfondland
"summer" 2003. It was raining horizontal sheets and it felt like 45
degrees F. We were passed by a couple on a yellow GW that was taking
the puddles and potholes better than I was in an SSUV. Later we
stopped for gas and, looking back, I think it was a Pan that come in
one-up. The rider filled, paid, and left just as I got the cap back on
the SUV gas tank. Bad weather and all, both bikes moved along fast and
well.

Manjo

 

Six gallon imperial I think is about 7.2 US gallons. I really like
that since my current bike has a 4.2 gallon tank. At 50 mpg that's
more range than I used to have with '82 YAMA Seca 750. I'd be happy to
get 200 mile per tank any time now.

Thaaks for the info. Sounds like a good and fun bike to ride.

Manjo