Coil failure again?

Having let the immobiliser flatten the ZZR battery - my own fault for
not riding it in 3 weeks, I optimated and re-installed the battery.
Started first click of the button - lovely.

Warmed it up good and proper, then took it out gently at first.
For 20 seconds.

Then I caned the **** out of it.
For 20 seconds.

It usually helps to turn the fuel back to 'on' after replacing the fuel
tank.

Having made this simple but obvious road side 'repair', I then continued
to thrash **** out of it until I got to the motorway. Then I thrashed it
a little more. For 20 seconds. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzpft. The cunting thing died.

Fuel: check.
Power: check.
imobiliser off: check.
kill switch: check.
foibles tested: check.
wait 5 mins: check.
hit starter: Vroom.

Coninued the caning. About 7 miles later, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzpft again.
And then again just as I hit the hotel called 'home'.

Now - given this was exactly the fault that was eventually traced to an
iffy coil - replaced and resolved, it would appear that the newly
acquired coil is also fucked. So - is there anything the bike or it's
rider could be doing to fubar the coils, or, is it 'one of those things'?

<sigh>



--
Dnc

B1200 - +30bhp ~|~ ZZR1100 - faster when upright
V2300 - flat cap and rug ~|~ VS800 - borked

MIB#26 two#54(soiled) UKRMMA#26 BOTAFOT#153 X-FOT#003

 

don't determine if a coil is fucked by "elimination" eg "well I checked
everything else so it must be the coils" and don't be fooled by
"fixing" the problem temporarily by fitting new coils.

I don't know you bike so I can't give you the numbers, but coils should
be checked for impedance with an (accurate) ohmmeter, this is the only
reliable way to diagnose them. Obviously you need to know for a fact
what they should read.

Have a read of http://www.xs11.com/faq/faqcoil.shtml
Ok not your make or model but should help.

 

Four cylinders = 2 coils, unless it's got a distributor, which I doubt
(it's not a 250 or something is it?)

I've only once ever had to replace a coil.

I did hear a theory that the old points ignition systems could
overheat a coil if the ignition was left on with the engine stopped,
but TBH it sounds far fetched and certainly shouldn't apply to a
modern electronic system.

 

Doesnotcompute says...

Have you checked the tank breather isn't blocked?

 

it's true, but associated with cars with the single coil and dizzy,
bikes were hardly ever prone to it, basically it was possible for the
coil to stay energised with the ignition on and the engine not running,
hence the in between position (off / auxiliaries / run / start) betwee
off and run in cars for running the radio etc... if you had a bad coil
it could cook itself to death, of you had a good coil it could flatten
the battery PDQ.

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Doesnotcompute

Oh gawd...

There's something wrong with these symptoms and the explanation the
dealer gave you. I discussed this with (IIRC) Pip a week or two back.

One coil dying on the ZZR should *not* kill the bike dead. It should
keep running on two. It'll run like shit, but it should run.

Unless the engine management thingy can spot a dead coil and shut down?
I've never heard of one doing that, but who knows?

--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - Manufacturer of the "Champion-105" range of rearsets
and Ducati Race Engineer.

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
SBS#39 Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
Honda GL1000K2 (On its hols) Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big"
Suzuki TS250 "The Africa Single" Yamaha GTS1000

 

Some people *always* suggest this and I've never heard of anyone who's
ever broken down because of it.

 

In uk.rec.motorcycles, Doesnotcompute amazed us all with this pearl of
wisdom:

I'm fucking glad I never bought it.

 

Silly question, but you haven't got one or more of the fuel lines kinked
under the tank? Because your problem sounds like what you'd get if you
had.....

 

Some people *always* suggest this and I've never heard of anyone who's
ever broken down because of it.[/QUOTE]

*waves*

Had this on the ZRX a couple of years ago. A few unscheduled stops on
the hard shoulder were eventually cured by cleaning the antispill
stopper in the tank filler assembly.

 

Happened to me years ago at the TT. Tank bag blocked the breather hole in
the filler cap of my BSA A65.

 

<waves>

ShiteOldMZs do it if you put a tankbag on the filler cap.

 

*waves*

Had this on the ZRX a couple of years ago. A few unscheduled stops on
the hard shoulder were eventually cured by cleaning the antispill
stopper in the tank filler assembly.[/QUOTE]

Supposed to be a culprit for the fuel starvation problems that 1200 Trophies
are notorious for - my problems were actually down to inline filters full of
crap.

 

Well I was there when Porl overfilled his tank and blocked the breather.
Simply would not start, until I suggested opening the fuel cap and trying
again. The resultant backfire was impressive to behold.

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique,

Are you saying that the engine spins, but doesn't fire, or that it
doesn't spin at all?

--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - Manufacturer of the "Champion-105" range of rearsets
and Ducati Race Engineer.

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
SBS#39 Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
Honda GL1000K2 (On its hols) Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big"
Suzuki TS250 "The Africa Single" Yamaha GTS1000

 

sounds heat related........

xs11s had a thing with not quite flexible enough wire on the vacuum
advance unit, which was rare on a bike, lacking one of them I'd start
to suspect things like the CDI unit, the xs11 problem would manifest as
a misfire / losing a cylinder or two, you could cure it for a few miles
by flicking the kill switch on an off, or permanently by replacing the
wire in question with multimeter cable.

if it was winter it would sound like icing

depending where your CDI unit is, see if you can temporarily arrange
better air flow to it by jacking the seat up or something, you could
easily have developed a dry joint in there which would show as a heat
related failure... dry joints usually happen on power tracks on a PCB,
if you can remove the PCB and ever so gently flex it (this works on PC
motherboards too) you can hear a slight ticking type sound when the dry
joint gives.

carry a spare plug, next time it dies stop quickly, use the spare plug
and test your HT leads against the head, if you get healthy sparks it
ain't CDI/coil/electrical, if you don't get sparks it is.

 

@localhost.talkaboutmotorcycles.com>,
says...

Has it got carbs or EFI? WUN mentioned an engine management unit?
Have the coils got a common earth? Do you know if the fuel pump is
running when the bike stops?

If you didn't live in the grim norf, I could have a look at it. A fresh
pair of eyes is sometimes a good idea.

 

Champ says...

Ummm....mb lives in south Dutchland

 

Champ: Not the sharpest tool in the box.
I have experience with EFI and carbs, that I know not what is on a ZZR
makes little difference to my mechanical knowledge. Or perhaps you could
explain why it should?

You may also like to know that I know that DNC currently resides in
Heerenveen, in Friesland, which is quite a long way north. Hence the
grim norf comment. You can, of course, check my message headers.

Now stop being such a chump, Champ (bet you haven't heard that before).

 

I've had that but with a good coil. One of my banger Triumph's coil
exploded - well the the end popped off and all the dalek/coil goo came
out - because I'd stepped on the switch box (turning on the ignition)
whilst getting out and then left it overnight with the battery attached.

Major panic on race day when it wouldn't start to get it off the trailer.