Cold climate oil grades

So... I'm taking the XT660 to the frozen north. There's a chance that
temperatures may go down to -25 or less...

I am worried about starting the bike. If it's very cold surely the oil
thickness may make it sluggish to start.

I emailed Yamaha questioning what they recommended, suggesting a 0W40
and they said they wouldn't go any lower than 10W30.

Now, my understanding of ratings is the first figure is the weight at 0
degrees and the second at 100 degrees.

So, anyone think that Yamaha's advice was looking at the top
temperature(30) and not the winter one.

Should I just ignore them and use 0W40, or, should I use the
bog-standard oil?

I emailed Putoline and the useless fuckers haven't responded. Maybe I
should check with Mobil and Castrol...

 

Check with Castrol, they are usually very helpful. I run Mobil 1 0W-40
in the MX5 to get the hydraulic tappets functioning quickly in very cold
weather on the advice of my independent Mazda specialist. It works. The
only caveat might be that a lot of the very low range oils are full
synthetics designed for car use. Might give problems with a wet clutch.


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| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Aprilia Shiver Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

Heh. Having the same problems here.

20w50 is the standard weight for the RGS. I get all sorts of different
suggestions depending upon the person I ask. Couple of people have
said 10w40 should be fine. The chap at Motorworks[1] was saying I
should be considering using 0w30, but not until I get off the boat in
Oslo. The particularly useless cunts over on UKGSer just said RTFM.

At the moment I'm tending to stick with 10w40 Semi synth.

[1]He was quite fascinated (and a bit sceptical) by our proposed trip,
I suspect he thought I was bullshitting at first. But then revealed he'd
done similar in the past and said the riding and roads (once you get
used to the studs and ice) is absolutely fantastic.

 

I've just changed to fresh 10W40 and that's the end of it as far as
I'm concerned.

I'm taking the approach that my bike's still under warranty and
changing away from the manufacturers specifications could invalidate
the warranty if it all goes to rat shit. I've even changed it for
Yamaha branded oil just to make sure they can't argue if it gets to
that point.

Warming the bike up properly is going to be the most important thing
so if anybody moans at me for having a smoke while that's happening
they'll be told to **** off.

 

Probably wise given its 'previous'.

Very, dare I say it, sensible. The same would go for 0w - 40, possibly
even more so.

Of course I remember starting a Matchless 500 single on a Dragon Rally
morning at below zero (but not a lot TBF) that had straight Castrol GP50
in it. With a valve lifter, manual ignition advance and a kickstart it
wasn't that hard actually.


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Not so much choice really.

I can find plenty of 10W40s. Several 10W30s. A few 5W40s and 5W30s

I think that I will either stick with the standard 10W40 or, maybe, go
for a 5W30.

Not so sure the 5W vs 10W will make a massive difference.

Would ask Castrol but they only make a 10W40 or a 10W30 for bikes.

 

I've already covered the electrical issues by spraying everything in
sight, firstly with silicone grease and following it up with ACF50 all
over the place.

The guys at the Yamaha dealership said that because Yamaha don't
specifically recommend 10W30 not to go down that route. They did
suggest using fully synthetic rather than semi so, again, I followed
their advice.

it's not starting that I'm concerned about, it's fucking the engine
because of lubrication failure.

One other thing that was pointed out to me was that we could end up
fucking about in deep snow in which case the engine will be getting
very hot because there'll be no airflow going over it and it could be
too much for thinner oils.

 

I'd be inclined to go for a 5W40 if the correct 'S' rating. Nordwest
starter clutches did not like full synthetics at all. I *think* SG was
OK, I can look it up if you want. That would be safer if it suddenly
gets warmer or you have to trash it at low road speed for miles and the
oil starts to get a bit hot.

The 'bike' oil thing is a vexed question. The only real problem I know
of is the friction modifiers fucking up a wet clutch (or starter sprag
clutch). I ran Castrol RS10w60 car oil in the Voxan on the advice of
Point de Corde. No clutch or starter problems at all. It did run the
front big end, but I suspect after research that was more a case of
dubious bearing shell quality on the early Gardette era engines.



--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Aprilia Shiver Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

A 'bike' full synthetic suitable for a wet clutch presumably.

See other post to burnt. That's why as wide a range as possible is good.

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| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Aprilia Shiver Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

According to the Army oil grade manual the Armstrong is specified to have
OMD80 for temps down to -15°

This is Oil Mineral Detergent 15/30 - It specifies OMD30 (5/30) from -50°
to -15°

I've just slung some 15/30 mineral diesel oil in there.

 

(snip)

Very true. Virtually all cars in use in northern Norway have engine
heaters fitted, there is a reason for that. I would have tried out
different alternatives for gently heating the lower engine[1] from
anything from below -20°C to closer to 0°C before trying to start it in
the morning. Primus (or whatever you have) at various settings &
distances from the engine, not to burn the engine paint.

[1] if the XT uses the frame as oil "tank" (as some other offroaders do)
this obviously doesn't work 100%

 

You'd hope that Yamalube oil is designed for motorbike engines and
that the boss of Flitwick Yamaha would know what he was talking about
and wouldn't tell me to use fully synthetic if it wasn't suitable for
use on my bike.

I know I've said this before but even though the Tenere had a problem
with Italians being too idle to put block connectors together properly
I still think a 660cc Yamaha is the ideal bike for this kind of trip.
No horrible hydraulic clutch to fail and only one plug to change when
it goes sulky on me. I wish it had a kickstart though...

 

I reckon 0/40 will be perfect if you can find it. Failing that, a 5/40.

 

To be honest, I think the ambient air temperature will be low enough not
to worry about lack of airflow.

 

When we were first in Sweden, early 1960s, Pa had a sort of flying
saucer-shaper paraffin heater that he used to shove under the block of
his Ford Zephyr in order to stop the block from freezing.

Apparently this was common practice as plug-in heated engine blocks
hadn't been invented then.

Always struck we as a slightly dangerous piece of kit, which I daresay
is why the evil old sod bought it.

 

I'm about to stick this in:
Castrol Power 1 Racing 4T 10W/40 Motorcycle Engine Oil

I've had a think about it. Slow speeds over a long period might mean a
spot of overheating which might be a bigger problem than not starting.
On the whole that is...

 

Our VW has (as an optional extra) a built-in petrol/catalyst heater,
which can be set to come on with a timer or with a long-range (150m+)
remote control. It works through the heating/cooling system and blows
warm air through the car, defrosting all windows etc., as well as
pre-heating the engine itself.

Dead good, it is.

 

I think those used to be quite common. My father certainly had one,
although I think the intention was simply to keep the engine dry and
warm for easier starting. I've been known to shove a modern low
wattage space heater under a recalcitrant motorcycle to good effect.

 

Indeed. Mine had one that got slipped under the Austin A30 when the
winter got brass monkeys. TBF, his reluctance to buy a new battery for
it and reliance on the starting handle may have had something to do with
it.

--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Aprilia Shiver Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

they love an oil thread on there: what's your user name?

if you do RTFM, the service booklet has a graphic

the "recommended in 2000 when my bike was made" 10W/40 is good for -20C to
+20C (hence why they changed it to 20W/50 due to high consumption when
people went to the Alps in summer). The 20W/50 is only good down to -10C.

The 5W/40 that is readily available, even in a JASO MA formulation for wet
clutches of no concern to you, is good for -30C

The chart is too old to know about 0W/30 oils but it would be logical for
them to be able to cope sub -30C