Couple of points

I see in the local paper mention yet again of two middle age riders

this weekend last both killed on motorcycles , recent returnee's to

riding and because of their driving situation apparently not getting

addition training before buying a powerful cycle and hitting the road .

I wonder how hard it would be to ensure these people get some reasonable

training before getting a larger bike ?

Other thing of concern is the planned addition of a chip to the drivers

permit , testing one here I see it is not immune to a good accidental
degauss

( and that's going to happen to mine a lot I think)

the id card when not having having an id card ?
How easy to abuse would this be ?

 

not very.

Probably just defeat the purpose. Who knows what purposes they might
come up with for use, but I imagine primary initial purpose would be to
authenticate the validity of the driver licence and probably to track
driver history, infringements, warnings, checks, etc. If the police
stick it in their little card reader in their card to download the info,
an find none, then you'll probably have to go through whatever process
it is that they would manually have to go through to validate the
document, so you'd probably be wasting your own time, and raising
suspicion.

OTOH, if everyone did it....

Nev..
'08 DL1000K8

 

Born again riders are a real worry, particularly those that jump on the
larger Cruisers and think they can handle them because they rode a 350 when
they were in there 20's.

Boxer

 

In aus.motorcycles on Wed, 02 Sep 2009 18:14:35 +1000

And the reporter knows this how?

(I mean we know they have the exact truth all the time eh? Might it be
they.. *gasp* assumed something because they'd heard that theory
before? They aren't paid to be painstakingly accurate, just to write
a shock story.)

There are more older riders snotting themselves, it is true.

However... that's cos there are more older riders.

remember that baby boom thing?

When you look at the stats, the increase in crashes amongst older
riders is less than the increase in their numbers.

Like it has been time out of mind the ones who are crashing out of all
proportion to numbers licenced are the young men. If you don't
believe that, follow the insurance company money. Guess who can't buy
insurance, and who gets it for 2 bottle tops and a pound of tea?
Insurance companies are in it for the money and they know who crashes
and who doesn't.

What does appear to be interesting (although this is very tentative
and the numbers won't be available for a while till the MCC finishes
a big data dump project so don't rely on it) is that the older
riders who are having single vehicle crashes don't seem to be
sportbikers.

They are cruiser riders.

No one's accused cruisers of being horsepower monsters or even
"powerful". I strongly suspect that there's a "looks like a fish,
moves like a fish, steers like a cow" problem. That older riders are
buying cruisers but they are buying a lot on looks[1]. And those looks
are actively hindering the bikes.

Softails are good lookers but that suspension has its limits. Heavy
bikes with crap suspenders front and rear, pretty average brakes, and
a foot forward riding position that isn't the best for cornering and
possibly tiring on long rides....


That is statistics of course, meaning there are crashes that don't fit
that pattern. But the little I've seen of the numbers shows that
pattern quite clearly.

The old bods who come back after a while aren't buying modern
sportbikes. They are too uncomfortable for old bones and not really
appealling in looks or image. They buy Thruxtons if they are thinking
boy racer. Mostly they seem to buy cruisers. Or at least the ones who
crash do...


Zebee

[1] those who are a lot younger than dirt probably don't
realise that "cruiser" is a relatively new category. IN the 70s
there were Harleys which were starting to change a bit from the 50s
look and "factory customs" which were the same as the standard model
with a stepped seat and bigger bars. Then in the 90s when Harley
suddenly boomed with the Evo motor[2] and the softail and then
everyone[3] including HD started building 50s motorcycles. With slightly
better than 50s suspension and brakes but only slightly.

[2] yes I know the evo is late 80s but I don't think HD really took
off till the early 90s

[3] Except Guzzi[4] whose California was still more or less the standard
bike with a stepped seat and bigger bars, and as suspension and brakes
improved on the others so they did on the Cali. Eyeball a current
California and you will see it has the same brakes as the Griso.

[4] Oh come on, you think I could resist?

 

Oh but wait that might be constructive and some one else's
responsibility ?

As I said it can be read from several metres , now that's a concern
don't you agree ?

 

Couple of my mates are doing this very thing , I have been riding 4
decades and have reasonable skills but when they try to throw those
large heavy bikes they now own and chase me conscience should make me
slow...
but doesn't much

 

I know it as I took the trouble to enquire

yes but the number of older new riders seems to be a problem due to
lack of training imho due to the Qld rules

look at time since commencing riding though

up here there is a disproportionate number who have months or at most
a year or two who die alone at night
I know my night vision was not as good until a lense was replaced and
I am thinking the over 50's generally might have a similar problem ?

we were hoping

 

In aus.motorcycles on Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:29:07 +1000

Almost impossible to do in NSW once they are off Ls, might be
possible in Qld, don't know.

I haven't seen numbers of older riders on Ls/Ps, and as once you have
a bike licence you keep it, it isn't clear if the people falling off
are new to bikes or returnees or occasional riders or what.

Zebee

 

In aus.motorcycles on Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:29:07 +1000

But didn't say "this model bike" or anything that showed there was
a powerful or large bike involved, just that a newspaper reported
something.

So if you have good information that you draw your conclusions from,
it has to be stated, can't be assumed if the only source quoted is a
newspaper.

yes as you stated it as your source. If it wasn't, then state what
was, and what you learned from that, because otherwise all I can do is
take what you wrote.


Zebee

 

You did? I normally have trouble understanding what you're writing, but
that must have passed me by.

Buy two kit-kats. Eat one. Wrap your licence in the foil wrapper.
It's no longer a concern. Send me the other Kit-Kat as payment for this
advice. You can just use foil off the roll you probably have in your
kitchen cupboard but you miss out on the chocolate, and you're going to
have to go to the shop and buy a kit-kat for me anyway so you might as
well buy .

Nev..
'08 DL1000K8

 

There are no riders over 30 on P's, and there ought not be too many on
L's either, should there?

 

the model was stated in the paper but I know as a friend scraped the
bloke up

nah that would stop you jumping to conclusions

 

evasion noted and vain attempt for get chocolate for free refused.

 

Surely the only reason for that is that the born-again baby-boomer riders
buy cruisers (in the main). They snot themselves in direct proportion to
their numbers whether they ride cruisers, sportsbikes or (gasperage!)
Guzzis.

And a modern cruiser has way better brakes and suspension than a 1970's
anything. These people aren't getting into trouble because the bike is
inadequate - they'd get into trouble on a Z50.

 

Reporters are supposed to be writing stuff that gets a lot of people
talking about what they've written (and people are talking, aren't
they?). Usually it's a "man bites dog" story because "dog bites man"
isn't newsworthy. Car crashes aren't newsworthy. To be honest
'middle-aged, born-again, cruiser rider killed in crash' isn't
newsworthy. I'm more interested in 30-somethings on sports bikes!
Anyway...

....

Wouldn't it be good to get to that data and search for some suspected
correlations? I suspect we (motorcyclists) would be more intuitive
looking for connections then the post-grad Berino drivers!

I'd be interested to know if, of the set of all the middle-aged, born-
again, cruiser riders (to whom 50's atavisitic (sp?) bikes might even
appeal to (Easy Rider!) that crashed, whether membership of a club
(Ulysses springs to mind) is significant or not. If it is, then clubs
can size up their members and help. I suspect they would turn out to
be lone wolves. Ooooooowwwwwl!

 

Well, I know of at least one, at one time anyway

 

So do anyone know the Qld rules about older car drivers getting a bike
ticket ?
that's going to be the most vulnerable group and I assume the most
often injured if the ones who roar past me in twistys is anything to go by

 

There are no riders over 30 on P's, and there ought not be too many

Ahem.

Never had a Driver's licence, so it's the full course for me...

 

Never had a Driver's licence, so it's the full course for me...

Something related to that-- I've failed to search it up now, but I did
find on abs.gov.au a few years ago that (on the 2006 census date) there
was only 9000 R-licence-only holders in the whole country..

(Or may have been for NSW, but I best remember it as AU.)

 

In aus.motorcycles on Wed, 02 Sep 2009 11:51:10 GMT

Not yet clear. And difficult to determine as there isn't any good
information about exposure.

You can tell what's registered to what age group (and my understanding
is that cruisers are over-represented given that data) but you can't
tell who is actually riding and what amount they are doing.

It might be that the riders of cruisers are riding in different
patterns. Longer rides maybe leading to fatigue problems. Or
different times of day. Or mostly in the city so when they go on
rural roads they are outside the comfort zone where as the
sport/touring riders aren't.

That's not known. You can assume it, but you can't prove it with the
evidence available.

That's the problem with all this. you can assert all you like,
without evidence you can't prove it.

Zebee