Cuuuunts

No, no, no. I've been pushing for the resurrection of "gaylord" for
at least six years.

Though now it's become popular, I'm using "lord of the gays".

 

In uk.rec.motorcycles, petrolcan amazed us all with this pearl of
wisdom:

It isn't. I called it to someone at school 20 years ago.

<Shrugs>

 

Catman wrote

TBH it is brutal life experience what has taught me the benefits of this
one.

At every stage of The Game you keep reminding them about profit and
shareholders and responsibility to customers and shite and while doing
so waste even more of their time and make a point of telling them
exactly what and why you are doing it, at length.

Ultimately you get them to agree that happy customers whose problems,
when they arrive, are dealt with quickly are much more profitable than
unhappy ones. It is a message that seems to get across these days.
Though why there should have to be a message in the first place is a
matter still to be addressed by most retailers imho.

 

Problem with this (IME) is talking to someone that actually cares.

The margins in most operations are so razor fine that anything going wrong
would seem to kill the profit if you introduce any level of service.

The monkeys on the end of the phone are employed cos they are cheap, and
seldom ahve any power.
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS 75 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

 

Catman wrote

My counter argument to this is that profits are only marginal in the
first place because of the bad service and bad service cost lots of
money. If profits are that slim that a single bad deal can wipe out the
extra from a thousand good ones then Quality of Customer Service is the
only mantra they should be chanting, all else is the sure and certain
road to insolvency.

They don't but their managers, managers do and they cost loads of money
to service at an hourly rate. Half a dozen pissed off customers on a
mission could keep easy one of those employed full time. Easy target
and much more productive than shouting at the front line cannon fodder.

 

Except I suspect it costs less (on average) than good customer service.
ISTBC but what I see in the IT industry is a desire to get the punter's
money and then get them to **** off. Offering any kind of follow up that
is taken reduces the profit. YMMV and indeed it may be different in other
industries, but it doesn't look like it from here.

Oh yes, indeed. This is the niche that I exploit to the hilt. I always
explain that to my clients. We are not the cheapest. We don't even try,
but by god when things go wrong you can trust us to do everything we can to

Seems logical. I really doubt that it will impact on anyone that actually
has any power (or desire) to alter the status quo. What I think will
happen is they will just replace the the people being occupied with others
that are better at getting disgruntled customers to **** off. ISTBC, as
ever.

This interesting to me, though, because, as I've said, CS is where I make my
margin.

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS 75 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

 

No, he just sounds like one.

 

Catman wrote

I am 56 now and for as long as I can remember we have lived in what has
become known as "The Consumer Society." For all of that time failure of
Box Shifting type delivery of goods and/or services has been the thing
most likely to piss off a customer and the thing least likely to be seen
to be addressed by business[1].

Mainly I think this has happened because, historically, as customers we
were usually working alone. However, the Intrewebythingy is changing
all this and business hasn't yet quite twigged how fucking difficult we
can be when we are united in common cause.

If either the supplier or their carrier had bothered to put right my
complaint, rather than trying to lose it in The System, by now I would
have had my goods and they could all forget all about me. Their mistake
and they have already paid with 4 or 5 hours of their time and I have
hardly started. Somebody got their sums wrong when they were setting up
their systems and I intend to demonstrate it to them. Empirical is
better than anecdotal every time.




[1] No evenings or weekend delivery!!! FFS this is the 21st fucking
century, 24 hour society and living and treading round the other side of
the world and shit.

 

**** off, are you.

 

darsy wrote

Didn't you see the flags flying on Tuesday?

 

how come you look about 80?

 

Makes sense

I think the general perception byt those with suffucient power to acutally
do anything about it is 'Not very' Personally I hope this changes, but
flip it around. What *most* consumers what is cheap. Not good value, they
will convince themselves that it's good value *because* it's cheap. Most
will ignore a bad experience becuase they got such 'fantastic' value.


Of course there are always exceptions: You, me, most of my clients, for
example.

Best of luck.

Yes, that surprises me as well, although my prime supplier does deliver on
Saturday am.

In *sharp* contrast (to the experiences we are discussing here), our washing
machine went kabloom a couple of weeks back. We went to the local trading
estate, looking for a replacement, expecting to get it sort of mid-week.
Having got bored with Comet and so on, we dropped into Miller Borthers
(whom we used last time we did up our kitchen) They offered us £50 off a
machine that was in stock (cos they had a load of flyers that we hadn't
seen, with that price in it) and then explalined that they had a deal with
a local independant courier. If we wnated to pay our £20 delivery to the
local chap instead of Millers, they would arrange to have the new machine
picked, delivered to us and the old one removed almost before we could get
home. The only difference was that the locl chap wouldn't unpack it and
plumb it in. Bloody stunned we were. But that's why we went to an
'independant' in the first place.

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS 75 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

 

darsy wrote

High mileage and most of it with me ringing the nuts off it.

 

Catman wrote

I disagree, slightly. I think that most will ignore the experience if
the value turns out to be not as good as they expected because they know
it was "cheap". It is when you get no value at all that the issues
start.

Just had a call from the couriers Service Manager. "Yeah fine we will
deliver PM but the supplier has asked for the goods back." !!! She
agreed that having dealt with me for the last two days that what they
were doing was a bit silly but they obviously didn't know me as well as
she did but hey ho now it wasn't her fault and it would give her a
laugh.

Again there are changes. Apparently, Initial City Link are pricing up
contracts to their customers in order that they can offer a wider range
of services. My comments regarding the costs to them of bad service
have been noted and will be committeed at the appropriate time. Which
is nice.

 

Hmm. I was thinking more of tangibles when I wrote that.

Cool. But you're not actually changing anything are you (yet)? You're very
firmly in the 'exceptions management' path, which IME is where most
companies fall down anyway.

Erm. If we had any way of verifying it, I'd bet large amounts of cash that
it won't. (Be comitted, that is, or indeed make it any further than a
throwaway comemnt at the next low end managers meeting) You remind me of my
client who honestly thought that he'd got a chance of Vodafone creating a
new 3G tarrif in 5 days because the CS manager on teh end of the phone siad
he'd raise it with the 'appropriate people'

I admire both of your's (is that right) faith but sincerely doubt that
anything will be achieved other than you both feeling better.


--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS 75 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

 

Catman wrote

I don't have a clue, simply a hope.

It is what I am trained for.

It is usually a simple matter of empowerment for the staff. If they
have permission and resources to deal with a problem from start to end
it is never an issue. It is only the backward looking management who get
this shit and the likes of me are on the game of making sure it is the
Management who get the shit.

No it isn't as simple as that. I have had sales training, I know about
"consolidation."

Before I let her go I had a natter with her. During the course of the
natter I planted a few seeds. Perfectly reasonable customer
expectations and manners in which they all go belly up which can easily
be prevented by attitude sort of seeds. If she is bright she will see
it for the valuable crop it can become and make money from it.

I still haven't got my original goods, so yes.

 

Aye. Very true

Good on yer, then. Sadly backward looking management is all too common IME,
and they will not allow their monkeys (with some justification when one
considers the typical standard of 'normal' CS staff) that kind of power.
Of course, they will fight tooth and nail to keep both their positions and
the culture in which that attitude can thrive. I would expect change would
have to come from the top in most organisations, or be part of the
coporate culture form the ground up.

I don't

How high up the organisation do you feel she is?

A PITA indeed.

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS 75 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

 

Catman wrote

Not really. Over the years I have seen a huge variety of corporate
cultures on me travels through the job market a few of them actually
undergoing transitions of the sort I am in favour of. With the possible
exception of the type of bloke who objects because it means change and
he has a nice-cosy-little-number-thankyou and anyway he is in the
Stationary Stores and it doesn't apply. Staff at all levels love it
because ultimately it means less hassle for them and management love it
because it brings some very talented, quite cheap, fire fighters to
their attention.

This *is* the nub of it, it is all about corporate culture. In a badly
steered company staff, at all levels, are simply wasting far too much
their time "looking after their patch," and forgetting that their patch
includes it's customers both within and without the company.

Kin simple really. It is all about not fucking off immediately you have
done the deal and chatting about the wife and kids and stuff to cement
the relationship. It is another one of those skills what you acquire as
you go through life that it is, occasionally, usefully transferable.

UK Head office customer support manger. Maybe two steps above local
depot mangers maybe only one. One, two down from the board depending on
the size of the firm. I doubt it is more than 5 tiers deep. Even BT is
only half a dozen from line to the Chair.

 

In uk.rec.motorcycles, steve auvache amazed us all with this pearl of
wisdom:

Heh, *nice*

 

In this I am happy to bow to your undoubtedly significantly greater
experience.

Looking back, I've only worked for badly steered companies.

Ahh that. Yes, I can see that giving the customer nice warm and fuzzy
feelings. Not quite the same as actually helping the customer out when
things go wrong afterwards though.

Good hit then. Well done.
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS 75 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk