Dear XJR1300 rider, A21, 30 June

Discussion in 'UK Motorcycles' started by TOG@Toil, Jul 1, 2009.

  1. TOG@Toil

    TOG@Toil Guest

    Heading north from Tunbridge Wells, about 5.45pm. I was on my Street
    Triple.

    You came up behind me on the long Castle Hill descent to the by-pass,
    and I didn't gun it then because it's a bit narrow for traffic
    splitting and there have been some terrible accidents there, so when
    the road opened out into the dual carriageway, I nailed it and so did
    you.

    Interesting to see just how little difference there is in performance
    between the two bikes, even though mine is half the capacity of yours.
    Having ridden an XJR, I'd guess the roll-on performance is similar,
    too. Anyway, you came past me at about 120mph and did a couple of
    overtakes on the inside to get past some dawdlers. I bottled that,
    because at those speeds, if they haven't seen you and decide to move
    over anyway, you just haven't got the room to react. But you
    sportingly slowed down to something over a ton on the long uphill drag
    near Sevenoaks.

    So we went flying down the descent to the M25, and I managed to record
    a new top speed on the Bad Boy's Display on the Triple. And you
    carried on towards Dartford while I peeled off for the delicious left-
    hander onto the M25 anti-clockwise.

    Anyway, thanks for one of the better ten-mile thrashes I've had, and
    hope you enjoyed it too.
     
    TOG@Toil, Jul 1, 2009
    #1
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  2. TOG@Toil

    DozynSleepy Guest

    A bit too close to the circumstances around that 170mph guy videoed
    going under a camper van. It's not the speed that's the problem it's the
    closing speed.

    What's there to say except heh !
     
    DozynSleepy, Jul 1, 2009
    #2
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  3. TOG@Toil

    Hog Guest

    I'm reminded of a chap in the Scottish parachute club who binned his R1
    and was sliding along the road towards an oncoming car at a reasonable
    closing speed. Said car did a good job of braking and they stopped,
    mutually, with him nudged against the wheel under the bodywork. Another
    foot and it would have needed 2 body bags. So it isn't always the sudden
    stop at the end which kills you.

    His Akito leather suit survived remarkably well, for kit that is meant
    to be a bit shite.
     
    Hog, Jul 1, 2009
    #3
  4. TOG@Toil

    Hog Guest

    AOL
     
    Hog, Jul 1, 2009
    #4
  5. TOG@Toil

    ogden Guest

    I generally don't do it anymore.

    My trip in the back door of a cop shop told me all I needed to know
    about how dibbles feel about what they think is undertaking. And I don't
    want that view again.

    Pretty much the only time I do do it is if the traffic's moving at less
    than the speed limit, the car's in lane three, I can pass in lane 1 and
    lane 2 is empty.
     
    ogden, Jul 1, 2009
    #5
  6. TOG@Toil

    platypus Guest

    Well, I slid down the road at speed in that Halvarssons jacket the other
    week, and while the outer is a bit foxed, it really didn't begin to bite
    into the technical armour layer.
     
    platypus, Jul 1, 2009
    #6
  7. TOG@Toil

    Hog Guest

    You were wearing that? shit!! Well GLF can sell you a replacement
    outer shell natch. Did the job by the sound of it.
     
    Hog, Jul 1, 2009
    #7
  8. TOG@Toil

    platypus Guest

    It was pissing down with rain, on a concrete road, and I was doing no more
    than 70-80 mph tops. I slid a long way, then tried to sit up at about 20-30
    and started rag-dolling. The only damage to the inner is a bit of a tear in
    the mesh lining of one of the sleeves.
     
    platypus, Jul 1, 2009
    #8
  9. TOG@Toil

    DozynSLeepy Guest

    Go on admit it, you bashed your head against the concrete a few times
    and it didn't make any difference, you're still complete normal ;-)
     
    DozynSLeepy, Jul 2, 2009
    #9
  10. TOG@Toil

    DozynSLeepy Guest

    It may be the brandy talking after a week of forced abstinence but you
    clearly weren't going fast enough.

    What exactly were they hinting at doing you for ?
     
    DozynSLeepy, Jul 2, 2009
    #10
  11. TOG@Toil

    ogden Guest

    They hinted at nothing. They nicked me on suspicious of dangerous
    driving. There's more context to it, but the short version is
    undertaking now falls under the bracket of dangerous and I don't want to
    go through that again.
     
    ogden, Jul 2, 2009
    #11
  12. TOG@Toil

    bod43 Guest

    Well the one to worry about would be causing death
    by dangerous driving.

    Clunk click - or was that clunk clunk ouch?

    Of course 99.9% of the time no one dies, however when
    someone does you go to jail.
     
    bod43, Jul 2, 2009
    #12
  13. TOG@Toil

    ogden Guest

    JP can, frankly, assert whatever he likes. I was the one in the
    interview room that day.
     
    ogden, Jul 2, 2009
    #13
  14. TOG@Toil

    Ben Guest

    'fraid I side with Ogden on this one. On the two Bikesafe days I've
    been on, I asked a roomful of bike coppers on each how they felt about
    it. And they were pretty unanimous that you'd get a bollocking. They
    said although it wasn't illegal, it was so unusual as far as most
    drivers are concerned that you were asking for trouble doing it and
    therefore it fell under due care.

    And last October I was on the receiving end of the bollocking for
    doing just that on the M5.

    I still do it mind.
     
    Ben, Jul 2, 2009
    #14
  15. TOG@Toil

    Eddie Guest

    That's precisely what happened to AndrewR (on the A69 rather than the
    M5), and he got a choice of points or training.
    Ditto.
     
    Eddie, Jul 2, 2009
    #15
  16. TOG@Toil

    Ben Guest

    I got told I was going to be prosecuted for due care, but I never
    heard anything about it. Given it happened in October 07 I don't
    think I'm likely to either.
     
    Ben, Jul 2, 2009
    #16
  17. TOG@Toil

    wessie Guest

    Overtaking is not illegal. In certain contexts it can be considered
    dangerous. Same applies to undertaking.

    It only takes one Brunstrom-a-like in Traffic Plod to issue a guideline to
    *interpret* all undertaking as dangerous for the practice to become totally
    outlawed. All part of the modern process of policing by numbers rather than
    having intelligent officers who assess each case on its merits. JP probably
    falls into the latter group, but you are very unlikely to meet one of his
    peers as they have either retired, been moved out of Traffic or simply left
    the job in disgust.
     
    wessie, Jul 2, 2009
    #17
  18. TOG@Toil

    darsy Guest

    I do it in the car[1], never mind on the bike.

    [1] in fact, I undertook maybe 75-100 vehicles on the M25 yesterday
    between J23 and J24, with me in lane 1 doing ~60mph, and everyone in
    lanes 2 and 3 doing maybe 45-50mph. Followed by a nice blat down an
    unusually clear Ridgeway through Botany Bay with a bloke in a FTO
    doing his best to keep up, including when I overtook someone on a VFR
    riding pitifully slowly (like maybe 40mpg in a NSL zone).
     
    darsy, Jul 2, 2009
    #18
  19. TOG@Toil

    ogden Guest

    The definition of careless or dangerous, as far as driving offences are
    concerned, is where the standard of driving falls below (or far below,
    respectively) that which would be expected of a competent and careful
    driver.

    Other drivers are going to be expecting to see people pass on the right.
    They aren't going to expect to see people pass on the left. Those other
    drivers are the jury at your trial, they think they are the benchmark
    competent and careful driver and you're doing something they wouldn't
    expect (or do themselves).

    I don't mean this to sound patronising - obviously things are open to
    bending a bit, those drivers don't expect me to go flying past on the
    right with a speed differential of 50mph or more but it doesn't mean I
    won't do it, but these days I tend to view blatant undertaking as akin
    to having a loud can or a tiny plate - it's just asking for trouble.

    The primary legislation may not have changed but the rules of the game
    have. Plod are now routinely nicking people for dangerous driving when
    they're doing over 130mph (two I know personally in the last few months)
    when it used to be considered simple speeding. And you can get banged up
    for dangerous.
    Quite. I was tugged several years ago after unwittingly being chased at
    140mph and got away with a ticking off. A mate did the same recently and
    ended up being bundled into a cell for the night after a long chat about
    dangerous driving. He's currently on public transport courtesy of the
    careless driving conviction that followed. Neither of us did anything
    those instances but speed. I was chased through heavy traffic on the
    south circular by a cop who IMO recklessly endangered other road users,
    just so he could give me a 30 quid non-endorsable ticket for nothing
    more serious than filtering down the gutter.

    Now don't get me wrong, I quite like riding like a twat. It's fun, and I
    won't stop anyone doing it (the odd Ducati or R1 rider I see on my
    commute makes me shake my head in disbelief, mind). But, as I said up
    there, the rules of the game have changed even if the law hasn't. And it
    sucks.
     
    ogden, Jul 2, 2009
    #19
  20. TOG@Toil

    Simon Wilson Guest

    Yebbut you were probably going even slower. About 18mpg.
     
    Simon Wilson, Jul 2, 2009
    #20
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