Did Arnold Schwarzenegger pass the idiotic CA DMV motorcyclelicense test?

Discussion in 'Bay Area Bikers' started by jm, Sep 1, 2010.

  1. jm

    Bob Myers Guest

    So who's going to force you to take the test on an FZR?

    Bob M.
    Bob Myers, Sep 14, 2010
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  2. jm

    Bob Myers Guest

    Several, in fact. A few are getting a bit worse for all the
    formaldehyde, though.

    I'd send you one to fill that total void in your skull, but you'd
    have to get someone to do the install yourself.

    Bob M.
    Bob Myers, Sep 14, 2010
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  3. jm

    Twibil Guest

    His brain may be empty, but Krusty's got the body of an 18-year-old!

    Won't tell anyone where he keeps it, though...
    Twibil, Sep 14, 2010
  4. jm

    ? Guest

    My FZR1000 owner's manual claims that the minimum turning radius is
    10.82 feet.

    10.82 X 2 = 21.65 feet...

    However, that would be with the original equipment tires.

    I don't have the pointy original equipment tires and a wider rear tire
    (or one that has been worn flat in the center) will not turn as
    tightly as a new tire, unless the rider is able to put a lot of force
    on the handlebars.
    ?, Sep 14, 2010
  5. jm

    ? Guest

    What career bureaucrat in her right mind is going to fail the

    Not even the stupidest Filipina would do *that*...
    ?, Sep 14, 2010
  6. jm

    ? Guest


    I wouldn't even attempt to take the performance test on an FZR (or a

    But the whole issue here is whether or not the rider of a large
    motorcycle can negotiate the "lollipop," which was called a
    "basketball court" when I took the test in 1975,

    The reasonable WHITE guy who administered the test knew that longtime
    riders of full dress touring motorcycles were unlikely to pass the
    test and they would get *very hostile*, so he passed me anyway.
    ?, Sep 14, 2010
  7. jm

    JoeSchmoe Guest

    Laugh all you want. It doesn't change the facts.

    A) Nobody (yet) has reported whether Arnold took his own test.
    B) It's pretty obvious that it would be very difficult if he did.
    C) Especially if he attempted his own test on his own bike.
    D) It's most likely the big man took the MSF test on a toy bike.

    Now a picture of THAT would be funny & deserving of your laughter!

    The governor himself, humbled by his own test.
    JoeSchmoe, Sep 14, 2010
  8. jm

    JoeSchmoe Guest

    0.65 feet is 7.8 inches so the turning radius is 21.8 inches.

    The California lollipop dimensions are 19 feet, 6 inches for the inside
    circle, and 21 feet, 9 inches for the outside line.

    To pass the "free" California DMV riding test, these are facts:
    - You've got about 1 inch of slack in your turning radius.
    - You get ONE chance (and one chance only that day).
    - Zero mistakes are allowed (they stop the test right there).
    - If you drop the bike, it will likely cost more than $200 to repair.

    In contrast, to pass the $200 MSF riding test, these are facts:
    - You've got about 10 feet of slack space in your turning radius.
    - You can take a later re-test if you don't pass that day (I think ...
    please confirm if I'm wrong)
    - Lots and lots and lots of mistakes are allowed (they let the test go on)
    - If you drop the bike, it won't matter because it's a toy bike that is
    owned or leased or whatever by the MSF, not you.

    The whole system is designed to funnel money to the MSF, and, the MSF in
    California, with the most riders in the country, is making millions off
    of its ridership.

    If ANYTHING isn't fact above ... please call me on it!
    JoeSchmoe, Sep 14, 2010
  9. jm

    JoeSchmoe Guest

    What do you THINK the stats would reveal?

    I've already stated what I think.

    What do you, Twibil, think the stats would reveal?

    Be brave. Tell us what you think.
    JoeSchmoe, Sep 14, 2010
  10. jm

    JoeSchmoe Guest

    That did get a good laugh out of me. :)
    Pure logic.

    You get three "free" tries on the CA DMV lollipop test; so the logical
    approach is to take the first two lollipops ... if you fail both ... you
    then are forced to pay for the $200 MSF "get out of jail" card.

    I first erroneously practiced on the DMV lollipop despite the fact you're
    legally not allowed to practice the test, and in those days, YouTube
    didn't exist (AFAIK), so the course wasn't generally known (at least not
    to me or my biker buddies who said don't even think of taking the DMV
    test ... just pay the bribe to the MSF and be done with it which is what
    they all did).

    Then, I took the lollipop test, and the examiner (who clearly never rode
    a bike in her life) told me to do the cone swerve and two loops around,
    which I missed the corner of the exit to the straightaway. She stopped
    the test right there, so I never got to know the second part.

    Then I took the test again, a few days later, and found out the second
    part of the lollipop test which was to go down the straightaway in the
    other direction. This time, I went out of the 21' 9" circle, and failed.

    By now, I knew both parts of the lollipop. Plus by now I had learned to
    watch others take (and fail) the test. I asked them all their technique,
    which mostly was to slip the clutch, and brake hard with the right foot
    (although some hung their outboard foot out as a counterweight).

    In practicing for my third try, I could pass myself 80% of the time but
    on the days I had someone grade me, it was only 60% to 70% of the time. I
    learned from that, that anyone who says they can pass it can't be the
    judge because you can't even SEE the lines (nor should you be looking
    straight down anyway); so how do you know you didn't stray an inch
    outside them?

    What sealed my decision was that at some point I dropped the bike.
    Slowly, but hundreds of pounds slowly landed on the DMV lollipop,
    scratching the tupperware a bit.

    - I could pass the test, say 3/4 of the time ... should I risk it (and
    the bike)?
    - Or, I could simply pay $200 to the MSF and be done with it.

    I decided to spend the weekend on a toy bike with a dozen chattering
    wanna-be bikers and now I "are" a bona-fide rider on the California

    I suspect our Governor made the same decision NOT to take his own test on
    his own bike.
    JoeSchmoe, Sep 14, 2010
  11. jm

    Tim Guest

    In Virginia, the rider training classes are run by (or subcontracted
    out by) the DMV. All they use is the MSF curriculum and MSF-trained
    "coaches." The "coaches" are paid by the site coordinatiors (for
    instance, in northern Virginia, Northern Virginia Community College)
    and the site collects (and keeps) both the student tuition *and* the
    DMV's 100% match of that tuition, which is funded by a $2 per year
    surcharge on motorcylce registrations.

    The only money that the MSF gets from Virginia is from the licensing
    fees for its curriculum, whateve that pittance is.

    The last I checked, the MSF nationally was a non-profit organization
    with a full-time staff of about five people and about three part-
    timers. None of them appeared to be getting rich.

    Can't say that California is the same, but it's unlikely that the
    arrangement there is very different.

    I'm sure there are some educated California riders who can provide
    greater insight.
    Tim, Sep 14, 2010
  12. jm

    JoeSchmoe Guest

    Hi Bob,

    Do you see the irony in all of this?

    The logic forces you to either take the California DMV lollipop on
    someone elses' (tiny) bike; or you buy your way out of the test by paying
    $200 to the MSF - again on a toy bike.

    Think about that. In California, with the most riders in the nation, most
    of the riders (if not all the big-bore riders), did NOT pass their riding
    test on anything but what amounts to a scooter.

    How ironic.
    JoeSchmoe, Sep 14, 2010
  13. jm

    JoeSchmoe Guest

    How many millions of licensees does California license each year?
    - Multiple (most) of that number by $200.
    - That's a LOT of millions the MSF is making.
    - This report says the MSF has "trained" 100,000 bikers in 10 years.
    - 100,000 x $200 = 20,000,000 in ten years
    - Let's assume only 50% of those riders took the "logic bribe".
    - That's 10 million dollars of wholly wasted money funneled to the MSF!
    - That's a LOT of wasted money!

    What does it COST the MSF?
    - I doubt the low-level coaches are paid a whole lot (AFIAK)
    - The bikes are donated (AFAIK) & even so, they're cheap toys.
    - They don't pay taxes (AFAIK).
    - The might rent the schoolyard parking lots they use (or it's donated).
    - The material is the same year after year so their NRE is near zero.
    JoeSchmoe, Sep 14, 2010
  14. jm

    Tim Guest

    Can you verify that the MSF is being paid $200 per student in
    California? No, you can't.
    Yes, but what that means is that 100,000 motorcyclists have received
    training that utilizes the MSF curriculum.
    Are you sure? Do you knwo that there are no matching state funds
    involved? That would make the number much higher.
    Really? Were motorcycles provided? Were riding ranges provided?
    Were classrooms and bathrooms and videos and course materials and
    instructors and schedulers and administrators and security and
    motorcycle maintenence, fuel, and repairs, cones, paint, storage for
    motorcycles provided? Were all those items provided free of charge?
    Or did the entity providing the training also provide those items as
    part of the curriculum? Or was each student charged separately and
    individually for all those expenses outside the obscene filthy lucre
    being funneled to the MSF?
    In Virginia, at least as recently as 2004, coaches gross salaries
    consumed 33% of the course tuition, not including range aide salaries,
    not including the site coordinator's salary, not including the site
    scheduler's salary, and no including employer's matching FICA and
    Medicaid/Medicare contributions.
    In Virginia, some bikes are donated by local dealers, and some are
    purchased by the individual program sites. They are not cheap toys.
    Not if the program is administered by a state-run agency at a
    community college. In Virginia, private companies are now bidding and
    being awarded contracts to administer individual training sites under
    the aegis of the DMV, and I can assure you that those companies at
    those sites buy their own motorcycles and they pay taxes, like any
    other business.
    Depends. You don't know anything about it, so "AFAIK" in this case
    means the same as "WAG."
    Actually, the curriculum was completely revised in 2002/2003, iirc.
    Tim, Sep 14, 2010
  15. 1983, bought a new Vision, realized I somehow hadn't renewed the M
    license. So I took the test and failed, there was no throttle
    position to go slow in a circle - the slightest throttle change would
    throw you in or out, higher gears would burble and throw you in or
    out, necessary constant speed going in would be knee-dragging high -
    this turned out to be a known issue which was later fixed under
    warranty. Anyhow, the tester said I could take it again as long as it
    was the same day, so I went home at got the G5 I had been riding 10
    years, passed no problem. The tester pointed out CHiPpies did the
    circle all the time on their Harley's, I held my tongue and didn't
    argue with him - just then I felt stupid for failing, I knew it
    couldn't be me, cognitive dissonance that the bike could be at fault.

    jgar the jorrible, Sep 14, 2010
  16. jm

    Twibil Guest

    You're called. The above is simply a self-serving lie.

    The system is designed to funnel incompetent riders into training
    courses; period.
    Twibil, Sep 14, 2010
  17. jm

    Twibil Guest

    That incompetent riders on all sorts of bikes fail the DMV test and
    are forced to take the MSF course instead.
    "Be brave"? What a maroon!

    (A) I've told you *exactly* what I think, and have done so repeatedly
    in this thread. If you haven't figured it out by now, you're not going

    (B) Until a few years ago I was a track-day instructor for the
    Motorcycle Safety Institute, and I think I met any number of folks
    like you while serving in that capacity. They were mainly
    distinguished by their collections of scars, broken bones, and skin
    transplants; and their utter inability to learn from their past
    Twibil, Sep 14, 2010
  18. jm

    Twibil Guest


    There is no law saying that you -or anyone else- can't practise the
    test for as long as you want to. (And the test's provisions have
    *never* been a secret.)

    Had you actually practised the test as you claim -and still failed-
    you're an utterly incompetent rider who should be using public
    transportation instead.
    Twibil, Sep 14, 2010
  19. jm

    Twibil Guest

    I don't think that anyone would argue that the test is equally easy on
    all bikes -particularly on a big one with a basically defective
    throttle- but the fact that any motor officer in California can ace
    the test with ease on a fully-equipped cop bike tells those who are
    paying attention that the test isn't even close to being "impossible"
    on a big bike, as this thread's protagonist keeps claiming: apparently
    on the grounds that if *he* couldn't do it then *nobody* could do it.

    The test is merely challenging, and is meant to require the
    prospective motorcyclist to display a certain amount of skill: skill
    our OP obviously didn't have, and skill that you *did* have, since you
    passed the test easily on a bike you were familiar with.
    Twibil, Sep 14, 2010
  20. jm

    Tim Guest

    And then if the rider doesn't have those skills, gives them the option
    of taking a rider training class that utilizes the MSF's basic rider
    course curriculum, in lieue of repeating the test.

    Seems reasonable.
    Tim, Sep 14, 2010
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