Did Arnold Schwarzenegger pass the idiotic CA DMV motorcyclelicense test?

Discussion in 'Bay Area Bikers' started by jm, Sep 1, 2010.

  1. jm

    Bob Myers Guest

    Only if one makes the completely unwarranted assumption that the
    "California lollipop" is only passable on a "toy" or "tiny" bike (to use
    your terms). That's pretty clearly not the case. The examples of
    experienced riders (often motorcycle police) turning H-Ds around
    in tighter circles show that yes, it can be done. And no, that doesn't
    mean they're expecting the average...ummm...Joe Schmoe to be
    able to duplicate the performance of an experienced cycle cop. But
    then, a 20' nominal circle is actually PLENTY of room for just about
    any bike, in the hands of a rider with the sort of competence that
    should be expected if we're licensing them to go out on the public

    Bob M.
    Bob Myers, Sep 14, 2010
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  2. jm

    Bob Myers Guest

    And I'd add to that that, despite the OP's characterization of the typical
    MSF-course bike as a "toy," it is often MORE difficult to pass on one
    of those bikes than on your own usual ride. El-cheapo 250s aren't
    exactly known for smooth throttle response, easy-to-modulate
    brakes, etc..

    Bob M.
    Bob Myers, Sep 14, 2010
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  3. jm

    JoeSchmoe Guest

    First off, the point of this thread is whether Arnold took the test.
    Not whether Twibil or Joe Schmoe took the test.

    However, to clarify what Twibil mistakenly said, I didn't say it was
    impossible to pass the test.

    Read my posts. I took the test myself. Years ago. At that time, I could
    pass it if I graded myself more than half the time. If I had someone else
    grade me, my pass/fail numbers lowered. I explained it all already so I
    won't restate that for just you Twibil. Please keep up.

    Fact is:
    - You can't grade yourself (mainly because you can't even see the lines
    so how would you know if you strayed outside of them).
    - If you can pass 50% or 75% of the time, that's still not good enough
    because you only get one shot (per day, for three days).
    - Anyone can pass the test once; it's passing it every time that's

    Remember, this is supposed to be a BEGINNER LICENSEE who is taking this
    ridiculous test.

    Of course, most people on big bikes simply take the test on someone elses'
    toy bike or they pay the $200 get-out-of-jail fee to the MSF to cruise
    through the class test, again on a toy bike as the system is designed to
    make you do that.

    But the point is that ARNOLD is different. It's HIS TEST! His name is on
    every single DMV manual. The point is that even HE can't pass his own
    test (as far as we can determine) ... and that's what we're trying to
    find out if it's a fact.
    JoeSchmoe, Sep 15, 2010
  4. jm

    JoeSchmoe Guest

    Does it?

    If you pay $200, you virtually get a free license as the MSF test allows
    lots and lots and lots of errors (people in my class missed the u-turn
    box by six feet and knocked down cornering cones and everyone passed!).

    If you take the "free" DMV test, you're basically at 21 feet 9 inches
    turning radius. You have to do this circle four times, twice in both

    Now, I'm sure you can turn your bike in your turning radius a few times,
    but, since ZERO errors are allowed in the DMV test, you actually have to
    do it ALL the time (not just half the time or three quarters of the

    Either that, or be very lucky on the day of your DMV test.

    You call THAT reasonable?

    That's the whole point. If Arnold can't even pass his own test on his own
    bike, how can it be even remotely considered reasonable?
    JoeSchmoe, Sep 15, 2010
  5. jm

    JoeSchmoe Guest

    Let me tell you Bob, everyone at that course but me showed up on a cager.
    I rode in with my K1200LT and those bikes sure are teeny tiny toys in

    I asked, but they would not let me take the class on my own bike, but,
    those toy bikes were a LOT easier to handle than my K1200LT is.

    I don't know what YOU ride ... what do you ride?

    And what is the turning radius as compared to one of those toy bikes?

    Still, we all know by now that Arnold almost certainly couldn't possibly
    have passed his own test on his own bike.

    So, we can beat this to death but the fact remains unless someone proves

    The governor, whose name and picture and signature is on every DMV rider
    pamphlet, couldn't even pass his own test on his own bike.

    That tells you more than anything else about what's reasonable.
    (Note: You're welcome to prove me otherwise.)
    JoeSchmoe, Sep 15, 2010
  6. jm

    JoeSchmoe Guest

    Good point.

    Then why didn't Arnold, the governor of the state, pass his own DMV test
    (the one with his signature on it), on his own bike?

    The answer is that he couldn't pass the test on his own bike.

    That's the whole point.
    (You're welcome to prove me wrong.)
    JoeSchmoe, Sep 15, 2010
  7. jm

    JoeSchmoe Guest

    It's actually MORE than $200 per person in California (they have a
    sliding scale, based on age) but I was just rounding off the numbers as
    the actual amount to the penny is not important.

    And, that report I cited was written in 1998, So, we can DOUBLE the money
    funneled to the MSF (about 50 million dollars) of wasted money.

    But, all we need to know is ONE thing.

    ARNOLD himself, paid the ~$200 bribe!

    Doesn't that tell you something? He's an experienced rider. He has a big
    bore bike. And even HE was forced to pay the bribe to the MSF (not that
    the money matters to him) just to obtain his motorcycle license.

    Ironic isn't it.

    (BTW, you're welcome to prove me wrong.)
    JoeSchmoe, Sep 15, 2010
  8. jm

    JoeSchmoe Guest

    Hi Mark,
    What bothers you so very much about this question?
    - Did Arnold pay the MSF for his license or did he take the DMV test that
    has his name on it to get his license?

    What part of that question bothers you so much that you resort to name

    At least Twibil and Kleinschmidt point out WHERE they disagree with
    poster's opinions (which is the whole point of the USENET).

    Just calling someone an ignoramus, without any citation whatsoever,
    simply says that you are, um ... well, er ... < deleted >.
    JoeSchmoe, Sep 15, 2010
  9. jm

    JoeSchmoe Guest

    Then you're saying Arnold Schwarzenegger "was" an incompetent rider the
    day before he paid the MSF for his motorcycle license?
    JoeSchmoe, Sep 15, 2010
  10. jm

    JoeSchmoe Guest


    Arnold Schwarzenegger, by your logic, was an "incompetent rider" on his
    Harley, and he was forced to take the MSF class in order to become a
    competent rider.

    Now he's a competent rider. All for $200 and half a weekend. What a deal.
    JoeSchmoe, Sep 15, 2010
  11. jm

    JoeSchmoe Guest

    Dear Mr. Twibil,
    This time you're wrong. Where are you getting your data?

    Go to your local DMV.
    Look around.
    There is a sign (there's one at mine in Santa Clara) that says "No
    Practicing Allowed" or something to that effect.

    There was a thread a while back about this. In the end, while it's
    illegal to practice for the test, you can certainly do it because cops
    don't cruise the DMV parking lot picking you off.
    JoeSchmoe, Sep 15, 2010
  12. jm

    JoeSchmoe Guest

    Yeah. Right. Who did the scoring? Let me guess. You!

    And, can you even SEE the lines on that big bike. The answer is no.

    So, how do you know you passed? You don't.

    And, anyone can pass once. Did you pass every single time?

    Arnold decided he couldn't pass every single time.

    That's why he didn't even take the test that has his name on it.

    He paid the MSF for his license.
    JoeSchmoe, Sep 15, 2010
  13. jm

    JoeSchmoe Guest

    Hi Tim,

    It's $250 here for us old fogies:

    And it's $250 here too:

    And it's $250 here also:

    In fact, I doubt you'll find ANYWHERE in California where the test is
    less than $250 for someone over 21 years of age.

    Notice the average in most states is around $100!

    What does THAT tell you.

    For one thing, California can (and does) more than double the price due
    to the "captive audience".

    The DMV system funnels the reluctant riders into the MSF. The MSF raises
    their prices. Forcing a huge percentage of the 200,000 riders to pay $250
    for a license, over the past 20 years, they've reaped many tens of
    million dollars out of the deal.

    Some deal!

    Basically, these riders (including our Governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger)
    are part of the "system" that funnels tons money to the MSF.

    And, the MSF, for their part, more than DOUBLED the average price for an
    MSF class. As their part of the deal.

    The price in California, due to this fact alone, is MUCH HIGHER than in
    the rest of the country (supply and demand always work especially when
    you ensure they can't easily pass the "free" test).

    It's a deal made in heaven for the MSF and they're making money in droves
    (with 200,000 riders over the past 20 years!).

    And for that privilege, they more than double the price!
    JoeSchmoe, Sep 15, 2010
  14. jm

    JoeSchmoe Guest

    A search today of MSF classes in California show that for most adult
    riders it's $250 (that's the limit by law and that's what the MSF
    charges, by golly).

    For some younger riders, California limits it to $150 but that's only for
    the youngest of riders.

    The national average (I already cited the reference previously) tellingly
    shows the price to be $100.

    What does that tell you?

    In part, since California riders have only the DMV "free" test as an
    option, they are forced into the MSF class, which more than doubles the
    price as a consequence.

    Nice deal.

    Is it just me that sees through all this?

    And, since Arnold took the same bribe, isn't it ironic that he can't pass
    his own test?
    JoeSchmoe, Sep 15, 2010
  15. jm

    JoeSchmoe Guest

    JoeSchmoe, Sep 15, 2010
  16. jm

    Twibil Guest

    Joe, you're an idiot. You don't get to tell anyone else what they can
    or cannot say in any thread.
    You're not just an idiot, you're pathological.
    Um, idiot, I took the test and passed it on the first try. I could see
    the lines just fine, so *please* stop lying.
    Twibil, Sep 15, 2010
  17. jm

    Tim Guest

    Can you verify that the MSF is being paid MORE than $200 per student
    in California? No, you can't.

    You've been beating this dead horse for six years.

    How sad.
    Tim, Sep 15, 2010
  18. jm

    Tim Guest

    What makes you think that the MSF sets the proce or gets the money?
    The MSF merely provides the curriculum. The state runs the rider
    training program.

    You have been beating this dead horse for six years.

    I don't know why you are so opposed to the state providing rider
    training to motorcyclists who wish to avail themselves of it, but your
    attempts to undercut it with various rants and complaints and trojan
    horses is disingenuous to say the least.

    1. Other states subsidize the tuition in their state-run rider
    training programs
    2. That land and facilities are cheaper in other states
    3. That salaries for coaches and support staff are higher in
    4. That gas costs more in California

    What does it tell you?
    It has been pointed out already that there is no "MSF class" in
    Caliofornia, simply a California Highway Patrol administered state
    rider training program class that simply utilizes the nationally
    standardized MSF curriculum that is, not coincidentally, also utilized
    by the OTHER 49 state rider training programs in the country.
    It is just you who mistakenly believes that it is a plot to enrich the
    MSF, and it is just you who has been railing about it on usenet for at
    least six years.
    You don't know that. You are merely assuming that.
    Tim, Sep 15, 2010
  19. jm

    Tim Guest

    You have not shown anything that indicates that the MSF is getting any
    of that tuition money.

    You are ona six-year vendetta against the MSF, for reasons known only
    to you.
    Tim, Sep 15, 2010
  20. jm

    Tim Guest

    You have nothing to indicate that Arnold did not take and pass the
    California DMV's own riding test, nor do you have anything that even
    hints that the money from California's rider training program tuition
    (other than licensing the use of their curriculum, which *I* pointed
    out) goes to the MSF.

    So answer these questions, Joe, or Paul Franz, as you have also

    1. What do you have against voluntary, optional, professional,
    nationally standardized motorcycle rider training programs?

    2. Why have you been railing on usenet against the MSF for over six
    Tim, Sep 15, 2010
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