Duc threating to leave AMA Superbike

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?lnk=rss&article=26678

The WSBK 999 can definitely run with the 4's.

Is there a 1200cc twin limit for 2007 in WSBK?

--
Andrew
00 Daytona
00 Speed Triple
71 Kawi H1
05 Infant

 

At one point they were restricting the inlines via the airbox as I
recall. Don't know if that's still the case.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Don't know but that's too much of a handicap. Maybe not for a pushrod
two valve Harley but they can rarely even finish a race.

Hell, Ducati' is finally getting their come-up's. After 10 years of
that 250cc Handicap, they finally have to play on a level playing
field (I4 intake restrictors not withstanding). It's no longer a Euro
only Ducati cup race, which BTW, nearly ruined WSB racing.

I hate Hondas but when the RC-51 stole the crown for a year or two I
was elated. Needless to say, I don't care for elitist Ducati's and
their snotty Desmo ilk (in this day and age). Why can't they compete
with their V4's in MGP racing?


Bob Nixon, Chandler AZ
01 Sprint ST "RED" 54K miles
http://bigrex.net/pictures

 

level playing field? what about the 2 cylinder handicap? It is common
knowledge that more cylinders with the same level of tuning will yield
more power than fewer cylinders. In club level racing there is usually
a different displacement allowed in each class for depending on the
# of cylinders and if it is air or water cooled. Even in GP bikes with
fewer cylinders are allowed to weigh less.

I just do not understand how someone can be happy when a small
motorcycle company that is dedicated to racing first and foremost
is beaten by an enormous 800lb gorilla of a company with infinite
amount money and resources. Were you always for the bully in
school when they were beating up on the helpless skinny nerd?

shane

 

Duc is still developing the Bike (as are all the other teams.) It is
known as the fastest straightline bike out there, but so was the Aprilia
Cube. At least Duc has had some wins from Capirossi.

Next year will be completely different with the 800cc formula. Sit
back, let's see what happens.

In WSBK Suzuki\Corser won last year, prior to that it was
Toseland\Hodgson both on Ducs. This year Bayliss looks good very good
on the 999 and is leading the championship.

--
Andrew
00 Daytona
00 Speed Triple
71 Kawi H1
05 Infant

 

Now hold on a minute there Bob, I resemble that remark!

 

Well.... it could compete in the AMA Extreme with the 900 Buell
and the jap 600 four cyls

Bram

 

You obviously know nothing about history and engines so why bother punching
that crap on the keybord at all?

 

Yeah, then we can rid our dealer showrooms of anything but inline 4s
once and for all!

 

Speak of the devil - New Formula eXtreme rules.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2006/Aug/060811a.htm

The Daytona 675 will be legal for it!

--
Andrew
00 Daytona
00 Speed Triple
71 Kawi H1
05 Infant

 

Making sense... which means the AMA won't do it. Supposedly, they're
going to the WSB or MotoGP points system.

The Desmosedici RR should make a competitive superbike.

 

Because you've ridden how many?

Got the $70k for a prototype? After you purchase it are you still going
to be sad when Ducs smoke your ass on track day?

 

You haven't been around here long, eh dipshit?

Explain Desmodomic valve actualtion and it's advantage (in this day
and age of metalurgy) in detail...please


Bob Nixon, Chandler AZ
01 Sprint ST "RED" 54K miles
http://bigrex.net/pictures

 

And then make the same argument for springs and camshafts when the
thought of an electronically actuated pneumatic system is so much
sexier.

Fact is that the Desmo thing works and it's different. Different ways
of doing things is what titilates engineering dweebs no?

Please explain in detail the disadvantage of Desmodomic valve
actuation. Why is it exactly that an extra rocker arm lever is so
inferior to a spring? Please spare me the valve adjustment thing as
I've ridden these things many tens of thousands of miles without the
valves running out of spec. And if Duc would add proper collets to the
build process we could probably get by without ever even checking the
damn clearances:

http://www.mbpducati.com/4v/photosvideos.htm

 

I was confused at first about Ducati wanting 1200cc because
they seem to be doing fine right now in WSB with their current
bike. But I think the problem is cost. Ducati is able to compete
but at a very high level of tuning that requires constant, expensive
rebuilds. They would rather be more limited in what they can
do (like the 4s) but have more displacement. Also, I think they
want to have a 1200cc bike for the street since the 999 has muc
less power than the inline 4 liter bikes.

Shane

 

To market to the dummies anyway. As if anyone really utilizes 150 hp
riding down to Hooters.

I don't get all the righteous indignation about racing. Who gives a
rat's ass if one engine configuration requires more displacement to
make equal power? If the configuration isn't a competetive design it
will suffer from growing too large or too heavy. I say give the mfgs HP
and weight parameters and let'em run what they brung baby.

 

I'd love it if bikes started using pneumatic valve actuation.
Currently, it's the ONLY [1] cam driven solution better than springs.
You'd thing with all the bucks they charge for Ducati's that they
would have had pneumatic valve actuation shortly after the F1 cars.
After all their customers deserve something better than a 1930's
Duesenberg cage design, back when metallurgy was shit.

[1] Cam-less or solenoid operated valve gear is still in its infancy.
That's the future of piston engine breathing or some ported variation
of said rather than conventional reciprocating poppet valves

Not anymore Saddle. Like I said, this ain't the 1930's anymore.

You did most of it for me. Mostly very tiny light valve spring to give
the engine starting compression as any valve lash on the closing
rocker would leak compression. Then, instead of having a conventional
valve spring Desmo uses a closing rocker arm instead of a valve
spring. The bad thing is that they have to use a weighty rocker at
all. I defeats the purpose of trying to keep the valve train weight
light (low reciprocating mass) as springed and pneumatic actuation
directly push the valve stem with the cam via small bucket.
Demodromic' is old tech, Saddle. It's definitely better than a
flathead, OHV or SOHC pushing both intake and exhaust valves but still
out of date technology.

Extra weight (reciprocating mass).

We haven't even discussed that aspect but why is it that Ducs require
6000-mile valve checks when ALL the other mfg's are nearly twice that
many miles. Also, those toothed rubber cam belts are a major joke on a
$20,000+ MC.

I like it. Saddle & with all the extra bucks you're shelling out for a
Ducati, the above technology should be standard equipment.

Bottom line: Italians are spoiled in their exotic autos and bikes
(Aprilia not withstanding) and think they can charge the customer
anything they want. A good example is the current vaporware V4 pseudo
GP bike at $60K plus.


Bob Nixon, Chandler AZ
01 Sprint ST "RED" 54K miles
http://bigrex.net/pictures

 

Ain't that the truth. I can barely use my 80hp on my morning commute, with
all the darn school zones, redlights, light rail crossing, joggers,
bicyclists, and other traffic.

Bryan

 

How about minimum weight for each configuration?

 

And with that small amount of reciprocating mass comes durability.
Springs, just like the aluminum frames on Jap bikes fatigue over use.
That rocker arm will last forever.

IMO, it's to bring $$$ to the service dept's of dealerships who risk
carrying such a low volume product. I've been having the full service
once a year or every 12k miles without any problems for quite some
time. Valves are always in spec too.

That wasn't part of the subject, but I'll agree with you here. BTW,
I've never spent $20k on a Duc in my life.

I agree. Perhaps I should learn some Italian and email the guys in
Bologna.

They can't make it up in volume like the Japs, that's just a fact of
bidness. They still make a tremendous product that is completely
different from Japanese machinery, and I think that's pretty friggin
kewl...