Electrical question

It used to be in auto electrics that if you tried fixing a system by
swapping components with known good ones, you ran the risk of making the
wrong choice and could end up frying the known good one (which was why there
was a No Return policy on certain parts I am told). I don't know if that
still applies with cars, but does it in any way apply with bikes, as in
Honda CB650s for example?

Thanks, pflu

 

Yes. Pretty much anything, for example.

 

Thank you, Pussy-face,
You would not have the balls to answer my query that way in person now would
you? I have learned the best way to ask a question here is to keep it simple
because you all are just too damned smart. I asked that same question in
another way before and received a pageant in response.

pflu

 

Your wit is underwhelming. I asked this before (and it was not answered)
because I needed to know if it was OK to just swap out parts, as is often
reccomended. If you are smart you know that as technology changes what is
obvious is not always correct.

My system is not charging, so a guy gave me a regulator/recifier to try. He
fixes bikes and says most often that is the problem. He touched my
regulator/rectifier after I had been riding and said it felt cold but should
feel hot. When I installed the one he gave me it felt hot at first, so I
rode with it. Turns out the system still did not charge, but now this one
also felt cold. He says it may not have been a good one after all since it
was just in a box in his garage.

I want to know if maybe it was a good one and if I could have fried it
because of some other component malfunctioning, and, if possible, deduce
what that component would most likely be. If not, I can swap out more parts
as I find them. I'm asking for an explanation, not wisecracks here.

Thanks, Pflu

 

Best of luck with that problem you're trying to fix.

 

If the dimwit thought for a moment, and compared (say) 12v -ve earth
electrical systems on cars with 12v -ve earth systems on bikes, he'd
have his answer.

 

Thank you. Did you bother to read that guy's post? I asked a question so I
could follow up with a question about swapping out parts. What I got was a
cutesy response designed to impress somebody and put me down, and I am
supposed to play nice? There is a pat response to that, i.e. flamers are
pussies who snipe from newsgroups who would never have the guts to do the
same to one's face.

To him, you, or anybody else -- if all you have an astute response, thank
you. If you want to be cute, read somebody else's posts. If you want to
flame, I will meet you someplace and see how brave you are in the real
world.

Pflu

 

You sad, sad, embittered little person.

 

It sounds obvious but anybody smart knows that, with changes in technology,
the obvious is very often incorrect. It would help a few people on this ng
to learn that.

I want to know so I can know which charging system components are safe to
swap out. I swapped in a pre-used reg/rectifier that ended up not working,
and I don't know if it was working in the first place and maybe I fried it
because another component was bad, or if it was already bad. What is a safe
way to swap out charging system parts?

Thanks,

Pflu

 

You got that wrong, lady. I have seen your useless, sniping, posts -- so I
know your use of "embittered" is totally projection on your part. You have
never had anything to say relevent to any persons posts requesting advice,
except to vent your ugly spleen. "Older", maybe -- "gentleman", hardly.

No charge, ma'am.

Pflu

 

I have to agree with that response. I have been a trained electronic tech
for 33 years and an electrical engineer for 26; without some insight into
the problem you are flying blind with a swapping out methodology. Nothing
has changed in the technology that makes it any safer, in fact some devices
are even more sensitive and due to complexity they are more difficuly to
troubleshoot without the right training and tools. The electosport guide
seems like a good start, but you need to be very careful to not short out
the circuit with your DVM when looking for symptoms.
I am not implying that you are stupid; I just don't know your skill set and
knowledge when it comes to electrical troubleshooting and repair.

 

Oh, right. A shrink, are you? Or have you just read about the term
somewhere, and thought it would look good in one of your posts?

You haven't seen very many, then, have you?

Well, here's another. Both cars and bikes have effectively identical
electrical systems. It's just that cars have more toys bolted onto the
basic loom. That loom is powered by a battery, same as a bike loom, and
that battery is kept charged by an alternator, same as a bike loom.

With that in mind, the answer to your question becomes obvious.

No charge for that little solution to your problem.

 

Now we're getting somewhere. You didn't say this in your original
posting, did you? Instead, you threw your toys out of your pram.

OK, the answer is: none and all, depending whether you go down the line
in the right order. For example, start with the alternator. Maybe the
original one is fucked. Put on another, and check the charge rate. If
the reg/rec is fried, you won't damage it any more, running for as long
as it takes to make the necessary tests (which involves a multimeter
across the battery terminals, to check the charge rate, which should be
13-14v with the engine revving. And if the reg/rec is fine, and the
alternator was at fault, you've fixed the problem.

In other words, don't replace the reg/rec until you've tested the
alternator. That said, a pound to a penny that it's the reg/rec that's
fried itself, and not the alternator that's fried it. Put a new reg/rec
on, connect the m/m leads to the battery, and fire up the engine.

No charge for this very simple solution to your problem.

(Just seen Mark's very similar reply, btw).

Are you feeling better now?

 

A very, very good answer that sums up at least 50% of the posters here.
The other 50%, of course, are as thick as curdled cream ;-)

 

Oh, please with the homilies, it's a motorcycle I am working on. I have torn
them down with a swiss army knife out on the road and fabricated parts,
sonny.

Philosophy aside, lecture acknowledged, the guy who gave me a replacement
reg/rect to try swapping out with has, at any given time, at least ten
choppers, Gold Wings, etc. lined up in his garage that he is currently
fixing. When he says "it's most likely the reg/rect, here try this one" that
he gets from an old box full of parts, that is the kind of answers somebody
querying this ng needs sometimes, not a link and political correctness. This
man touches a reg/rectifier and says "it's not hot, it is supposed to be hot
if it is good. You need a new reg/rect".

That is the kind of advice I am looking for instead of platitudes. You
regulars here really think you are brilliant. You seem to really impress one
another and love that

Dammit, just answer my questions, OK?.

Thanks,

Pflu

 

You may have noticed that a rectifier-regulator is built into a finned
aluminum heat sink. The heat sink gets rid of the heat generated by
the six power diodes inside, as they rectify AC current into DC
current.

However, if there is *no* appreciable AC input, the diodes aren't
going to make the rectifier part of the rectifier-regulator get very
hot.

Previously, you mentioned that you weren't getting a good continuity
reading through the slip rings of your rotor.

The regulator part of the rectifier regulator senses battery voltage,
and it controls the field excitation current which comes from the
battery and goes through the copper wire field winding in the rotor.

Have you tried passing 12 volts from the battery directly through the
rotor while the engine is running?

Also, do you know for a fact whether the rotor is actually *turning*
as the engine runs?

Many an oldtime aircraft electrician was fooled by the fact that the
generator rotor wasn't actually turning as he troubleshot the voltage
regulator on a radial engine...

 

You are absolutely correct; try another reg/rect as the first might have
been faulty.

Good luck with the repair.

 

Unfortunately, "The Older Gentleman" is no friend of the rider in need
of information and advice. He hangs out in motorcycle newsgroups and
debates or makes puns with like-minded individuals who believe that
newsgroups are for entertainment, not helping other people.

 

No.

Pop in once in a while and GIVE something to the group, then maybe someone
will be willing to give something back.

Those who come here only when they NEED something, often get............not
much.

 

truly are "an older gentleman" you must be aware of the difficulty to get a
useable answer on this ng--you first need to wade through stupid flamer's
"**** yous"; the responders who read as far as "electrical", then tell you
the freaking sine wave corresponding to the attitude of polarity and provide
links; and mostly people who don't even read the damned post. As I wrote to
another poster here, there is a mechanic nearby who touched my reg/rect and
said "it is cold. They are supposed to be hot if they're working". On that
level I know a hell of a lot more than many of the "internet engineers"
here, inasmuch as my practical experience involves fixing bikes on the road
all over the country during many pinches. That's the kind of info you use
when you're out here in the boonies -- everybody answers as if everyone else
lives next to Honda Motors. I don't. And I always have a pat answer for
flamers, not angry, just come back up your words.

Pflu