Euro diesel reaches the US

Discussion in 'Motorbike Technical Discussion' started by The Older Gentleman, Feb 10, 2008.

  1. The Older Gentleman, Feb 10, 2008
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  2. The Older Gentleman

    Anonymous Guest

    Anonymous, Feb 10, 2008
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  3. The Older Gentleman, Feb 10, 2008
  4. The Older Gentleman

    Anonymous Guest

    I've got a decent browser....

    Anonymous, Feb 10, 2008
  5. The Older Gentleman

    . Guest

    Manufacturers of diesel passenger cars will have to prove to ordinary
    middle class consumers that their offerings are not the pokey, smokey
    objects of yesteryear, collected and driven only by kooks.

    I personally know such a kook. He has a collection of old white
    Mercedes Benzes with hoods painted flat black. He has owned several
    diesel VW's as well.

    They were all white, with black hoods, too.

    The mandatory use of ultra low sulfur diesel (15 ppm instead of 500
    ppm) by large diesel trucks may result in me being able to actually
    see the Sierra Nevada again before I die.

    In the 1890's, John Muir could look across the San Joaquin valley from
    Pacheco pass and see the Sierra Nevada range gleaming in the sun, 150
    miles away.

    Today's visibility is 2.5 miles. I cannot see the front range of the
    Sierra and it's only 10 miles away.

    But, it isn't just the fault of polluting diesel engines.

    The EPA will also have to figure out what to do with all the methane
    coming out of dairy cattle's digestive tracts.

    We have more dairy cattle in this county than in all of Wisconsin or

    We make more cheese than any country in the world, but our cows also
    cut the cheese frequently, turning the sky reddish brown.

    Cattle generate almost 7 pounds of volatile material, per animal, per

    Driving past the dairy farms at night, my eyes sting from all the
    ammonia in the air.

    Perhaps cows can be fitted with large rubber bags to recycle volatile
    gasses. Or maybe engineers can figure out how to fit each cow with an
    afterburner device to consume the fumes.

    Biofuel engineers will have to figure out some way for cows to poop
    ultra low sulfur cowpies or start a program of collecting cow pies
    prior to methane emission.

    The cow pies can be burned and electrical power can be generated.

    Cleaning the air in California is not going to be easy.
    ., Feb 10, 2008
  6. The Older Gentleman

    . Guest

    ., Feb 10, 2008
  7. The Older Gentleman

    . Guest

    Indians once claimed that they could walk for miles on the backs of

    I just realized the reason for doing that was to avoid stepping in
    buffalo shit...
    ., Feb 11, 2008
  8. The Older Gentleman

    . Guest

    Technically, this part of the San Joaquin valley is a desert, with
    less than 10 inches of rain a year.

    You get the impression from the California dairy council's commercials
    that the cows live in heavenly green pastures, but the truth is that
    they live under cow sheds to avoid dying in the 110 degree summer

    Sometimes there are showers running to cool them off, but I remember
    driving by a neighboring dairy and wondering when the owner was going
    to haul away the dead calves.
    ., Feb 11, 2008
  9. The Older Gentleman

    Anonymous Guest

    Anonymous, Feb 11, 2008
  10. The Older Gentleman

    . Guest

    Well, it's a great place for irrigated agriculture. Texans who passed
    through the area on the way to the gold fields in 1849 noticed how
    good the soil was and returned to farm it. With good soil and Sierra
    Nevada snowmelt, farmers can harvest two crops a year. They even grow
    pecans in flooded fields around here.
    Merle Haggard wrote a 1942 song about picking cotton in the "Tulare
    Dust", and also swore he'd never swim in the Kern river again.

    But the biggest indictment I have ever read about the area is the
    final chapter of John Steinbeck's "Grapes of Wrath". Unlike the movie
    version, the Joads did not "keep on, keeping on."

    Tom Joad left the family to watch over the labor movement in spirit
    only before Pa Joad was shot as a chicken thief. Rose O' Sharon's baby
    was born dead in the box car near Pixley and they put it into a wooden
    box to float through the streets of Delano to "wake up the city folks"
    to the plight of the Okies.

    Kern county businessmen heartily condemned Steinbeck's stories and his
    books were burned in front of the libraries.

    But, if you stop for gasoline at the Shell station in Pixley, you'll
    see the local girls from the trailer park hanging around hoping to
    date a passing trucker...

    Eleanor Roosevelt visited the San Joaquin valley during the Great
    Depression to see if what Steinbeck had to say about the Hoovervilles
    was true.

    It was all true, and the cities are still working to get the homeless
    people out from under the bridges 60 years later.
    ., Feb 11, 2008
  11. The Older Gentleman

    . Guest

    Fistulate 'em, if they can't take a joke...
    ., Feb 11, 2008
  12. A dmodern diesel engine, like a European diesel, is less poluting than a
    petrol engine. Less NOX, less CO2 and (with a particulate trap fitted)
    less particulates too.
    Diesel cars and diesel fuel are *not* subsidised in Europe. Where did
    you get this nonsense from? It *is* slightly cheaper in some countries
    than petrol, and it is a fair bit cheaper in a few, but it is definitely
    not subsidised. It presently costs £1.10/litre in the UK, for example,
    and about euro1.20/litre in France and Germany.
    Depends how pricey the fuel is to begin with. At our rates, you can.
    Maybe not in the US. And there is no premium for diesel engines in
    Europe, not any more, because we make so many of them. The economies of
    scale are there.
    See above.
    The Older Gentleman, Feb 11, 2008
  13. They've done that. Your last pronouncement on the subject involved
    telling the world that Europe used diesels because it didn't have
    earthquakes. Do pull your head up from wherever you've stuffed it.
    The Older Gentleman, Feb 11, 2008
  14. The Older Gentleman

    . Guest

    You need to look at the Big Picture instead of from your existential
    pleasure seeking weltanschuung.

    Geological landforms like tectonic plates and mountain ranges and
    ocean currents and prevailing wind and rain patterns lock air
    pollution into the southern half of the San Joaquin valley, which is a
    huge agricultural area 800 miles long and 200 miles wide.

    Farmers can only grow crops in about half that area, it's too dry on
    the west side of the valley for anything except cotton. Even the
    Salinas valley has its microclimates where some crops will grow and
    others won't and the Santa Lucia mountains block the rain from falling
    in the valley and the Salinas river sinks into the sand in futility.

    Farmers farm and use diesel farm machinery and truckers truck and
    diesel mechanics repair diesel trucks and diesel farm machinery and
    any land along Highway 99 that doesn't have crops or cows or houses on
    it looks like a huge junk yard with rows of rusting machinery waiting
    to be fixed.

    Or it looks like an endless RV, boat, and manufactured home sales

    It will take decades to see a change in air quality from use of ultra
    low sulphur diesel fuel, if it isn't already too late.

    The San Joaquin valley has changed from having a navigable 100 square
    mile lake in the middle to having a huge desert in the middle. This
    has happened in only 150 years as forests were cleared and Sierra
    creeks diverted into farmers' irrigation ditches.

    We have had two or three devastating dust bowl droughts here since the
    1880's. John Steinbeck, who wrote extensively about the problems of
    farmers in California, discussed the deadly droughts in "To a God

    The San Joaquin river has gone dry and California wants to restore it
    so salmon can swim from the San Francisco bya to Kings county.

    The Kern river flows down off Mount Whitney, and is absorbed into
    desert sands in a huge selenium-polluted basin in Kern county. The
    small oil town of Taft looks like it belongs in southern New Mexico.

    The Kaweah river and Kings river drain down out of Sequoia and Kings
    Canyon, and the water disappears into the ground long before it ever
    reaches the middle of the valley.

    The 400 square mile oak and sycamore forest in the Kaweah delta has
    disappeared, there are only a few isolated groves of valley oaks left.

    A few yuppies buying high performance diesel sedans and sportscars are
    not going to have a huge immediate effect upon California air quality.

    The diesel truck fleet is not expected to be fully replaced until
    2030, and air pollution standards for diesel cars have been only
    slightly relaxed for 2007 through 2009 models to make an opening for
    more affordable small Japanese diesel sedans.

    With all the movie stars buying hybrid electric cars, it's going to
    take some major celebrities buying clean diesel sedans and bragging
    that they are non-polluting to get *other* trendy celebrities to buy
    clean diesel sedans, and if the clean diesel sedans don't cost $90K
    trendy celebrities won't feel the need to keep up with each other,
    they will buy something that proves they are rich.

    As I said above, any major change in air quality is going to happen
    because of ultra low sulfur diesel compliant heavy trucks, farm
    machinery, railroad locomotives, electric power generating diesels and
    marine engines, it won't happen because a few yuppies are buying
    prestigious diesel sedans.
    ., Feb 11, 2008
  15. The Older Gentleman

    . Guest

    Well, cows are very lovey-dovey females who turn lesbian in season and
    try to mount the one that's in heat.

    I know this because I once worked with a conscientious objector who
    had joined a monastery to avoid military service during WW2.

    He thought that monks would spend a lot of time praying and and
    carrying candles
    and chanting a capella hymns.

    He was wrong. The first monastery he was assigned to was a brick
    factory, and carrying all the bricks to be fired was too physically

    So he petitioned for duty in a farm service monastery. He thought that
    he would be teaching farmers how to rotate crops and contour plow to
    reduce erosion.

    But he was wrong again. The monastery was involved in animal
    husbandry, and his job was to artificially inseminate dairy cattle and
    gather sperm from the bulls, which were too heavy to be allowed to
    directly service the cows.

    He told me all about running his arm up a cow's rectum and cleaning
    her out so he could position the cervix to inject the frozen sperm
    with his other arm.

    He also described how he would get into a frame with a cow hide over
    it and masturbate the bulls to gather their sperm. He said that the
    bulls would figure out what was going to happen next when they saw him
    come up to the fence.

    All of this animal sexuality became challenging to his vows of
    chastity. He met a nun and they petitioned to be relieved of their
    vows so they could marry after WW2 was over.
    ., Feb 11, 2008
  16. <snip>

    What has that to do with Europe "not having earthquakes"?
    Nonsense. It took a lot less than that in Europe. ULSD was introduced
    here at the turn of the century. The change has been immense.

    So legislate *now* for changes in the next decade. That's what we did.
    The old (10-years plus) trucks fall off the balance sheet anyway. No
    serious haulier keeps antiques like that running now - they're
    uneconomic. Pikey skip haulers do, but they're a fraction of the truck

    , and air pollution standards for diesel cars have been only
    You don't need to 'relax' standards for diesel engines if they're
    properly equipped. Like I said, they can be the cleanest engines
    around. You just can't accept this, can you?
    Millions of Americans didn't buy Hondas because they were luxurious.
    They bought them because they were well built and reliable. Millions
    of Europeans buy diesels because they're economical, low polluting,
    cheap to service, and last a very, *very* long time.
    See above. It would help if you knew something about modern diesels,
    but you evidently don't.
    [email protected], Feb 11, 2008
  17. The Older Gentleman

    CBXXX Guest

    I loved my 82 diesel Nissan King Cab pick up.Don't care if it went fast
    got me every where I wanted to go and gave me 44 in the city and 50 on
    the highway.(mobil1 in engine,redline gear oil and tranny oil,and K&N
    air filter).Lost it in the divorce,big mistake to give it to her.

    Out of the Blue Into the BLACK
    CBXXX, Feb 11, 2008
  18. The Older Gentleman

    Dieseldes Guest

    Which equates to $8.1 a US gallon Just wait till you are paying that for
    fuel and I'll bet diesels suddenly become much more popular
    Dieseldes, Feb 11, 2008
  19. If there is one good thing about the sky-high European taxation of fuel,
    it's this:

    It insulates us from the worst of the oil price rises.

    You guys are used to paying peanuts for fuel, because the tax is low and
    your entire infrastructure is built around cheap energy. The price of
    oil doubles and so, damn nearly, does your price of fuel.

    OTOH, because 80% of the price of a UK gallon of fuel is tax, the actual
    oil component is fairly small. We are completely used and conditioned to
    working on expensive fuel (one reason why the European, and especially
    UK, haulage industry is about the most efficient in the world).

    So if the price of oil doubles, the price of fuel at the pumps rises,
    sure - but not by that much. We can work around it, live with it, raise
    our prices to allow for it but only raise them a little.

    I hate to say it, but the US dependence on dirt-cheap fuel has *got* to
    change, because you are out of step with the rest of the world. And the
    rest of the world is not going to slash its taxes on fuel. You are going
    to have to raise yours.
    The Older Gentleman, Feb 11, 2008
  20. My all time favorite was my 1980 International Scout
    with Nissan turbo-diesel. Destroyed by an incredible
    piece of mechanic's stupidity at 250,000 miles or I'd
    probably be driving it still. You got way better mileage
    than I did though. Don't know if this was the same
    engine or not. The one I had was also used in industrial

    Take a look at anybody who's at all serious about
    horses and they're just about guaranteed to have a
    diesel rig for hauling.

    If'n I was one of them there self righteous yuppies that
    seem to bother some folks so much, I'd probably be running
    a diesel hybrid with aux. CNG and/or biodiesel fuel. Not
    that I really give a sh*t about the moral high ground,
    but I definitely treasure the chance to take an irratating
    air of moral superiorty.
    Rob Kleinschmidt, Feb 11, 2008
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