The guy in Switzerland who organises our annual MV Agusta tour (Peter Spoerri) is now running other tours as a sideline. They're aimed purely at solo sportsbike riders who want to ride fast on some of the best roads in Europe, staying in good quality privately-owned hotels, with all your luggage going in a van that meets you at the hotel every evening. The cost includes absolutely everything apart from evening drinks - you don't even have to pay for fuel. I've done two of the MV tours, & they are utterly fantastic. Peter leads on his tricked-out MV 1000, & is a very quick rider. A sweeper follows at the rear to ensure nobody gets lost, so you can either try to keep up with Peter, or sink back into the tail group if his pace is a bit hot for you. If you fancy doing a hassle-free blast around France/Italy etc (or even South Africa), but don't like the idea of an organised tour, I'd urge you to give Peter's outfit a try. It's very layed back & just like a sunday blast with mates. Steer clear if you're not fairly quick though, or like to stop & look at museums etc - these trips are just about the riding. The URL is http://www.fast-travel.ch/index.php?file=10&lang=en -- Krusty www.MuddyStuff.co.uk Off-Road Classifieds '02 MV Senna '03 Tiger 955i '96 Tiger '79 Fantic Hiro 250
Got to say they're farkin' expensive, but then most of these commercial tours are. The SA one works out at about £2500, and you don't seem to get a flight for that. If they're good and you get your money's worth, then they look like fun. I still recoil slightly from the idea of paying a large sum of money in advance, to a foreign company that doesn't offer ATOL and ABTA protection, and that doesn't take credit cards...... Organised tours are great until something goes wrong. I can't help thinking that one day, one of these operations is going to come nastily unstuck, either on a financial basis or because one of the participants has a bad prang. In Spain, and probably France, they'd detain the tour leader while they sorted things out, I suspect. A friend went on one of the well-known commercial tours a few years ago, in Spain. They lost one of the participants. Last seen in the group, and what happened to him nobody knew. He just didn't show up at the hotel. Alarmingly, the tour leader spoke very poor Spanish and didn't know how to contact people like local Plod, local hospitals, etc. In the event, the lost bod turned up some hours late, because he'd... well, just got lost. But the tour leader just couldn't cope in a crisis, and James was a bit perturbed at that.
I've never really broken down the price, but they don't seem that expensive to me, given what's included. Quality hotels, all meals, petrol, hire of luggage van & driver (who's hotel/food/fuel costs obviously have to be paid, along with Peter's & the sweeper's) etc. Plus Peter does the full route & stays in all the hotels at least once in advance, to ensure they're all up to scratch & there aren't any road closures/speed cameras etc. It's obviously more than doing a budget trip by yourself, but it's not trying to compete with that. Again, not something I've really thought about as he's a mate who I've known for years. I can see how that might put some people off though, & I'll pass your comments on if that's ok with you. I'm sure he could sort out credit card payments as the tours are done in association with his employer (the Swiss MV Agusta importer). There's been a few prangs on the MV tours, but no serious injuries so far. The broken bikes are just chucked in the back of the luggage van & sorted out later. -- Krusty www.MuddyStuff.co.uk Off-Road Classifieds '02 MV Senna '03 Tiger 955i '96 Tiger '79 Fantic Hiro 250
This obviously adds to the costs. Having got close to doing a one-off commercial run myself, I had to factor all this in too. Oh yes. But then, I've got a pretty good idea of what this sort of thing actually costs. I was asked to organise one for a magazine a while back, and they wanted to mark it up by 200%. That's fine. One of these days, though, somebody is going to clout a pedestrian, or emerge from a hotel or junction on the wrong side of the road (managed both of these myself), or have a high-speed bin that involves another vehicle, and then the liability of the organiser is going to be tested to the limit. And whatever the disclaimer says, I'm sure the authorities are going to be less than sympathetic. On TOG Tours, and on the commercial trip I planned, the deal is spelled out. You're not on an organised ride. You've got a hotel booked (and usually a ferry crossing), and we'll see you there. I'm agin organised riding groups more or less on principle (OK, and personal bias). Either they're like Harley ride-outs, where prats go in a huge convoy at 50mph and **** up the traffic, to the extent of illegally blocking junctions to allow the cavalcade to pass, or they're faster runs where, whatever you do you cannot maintain control. And having a group leader and sweeper suggests (or will suggest to investigating authorities) that you are trying to maintain control. I'd like to hear Ace's take on this, because I can see parallels here with 'unofficial' ski touring and instruction. FWIW, I reckon the ideal number for a group ride is three or four.
Me too! FFS what kind of moron can't decide for hmself where he wants to go? Surely the whole point of a biking trip is freedom. You cover great roads and stop when you feel like it. Having a specific hotel to stop at ruins the whole thing. You might find you want to carry on at the end of the day or you mihgt get fed up at lunchtime and want to stop. You will certainly want to gaze a few views and get some photos. This sound like a package trip for morons who don't have the wit or imagination to control thier own lives. Having said that the idea of a Van with the kit is *very* tempting.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised but 200%! I agree but that's largely because I'm slow and I don't like to hold people up or make them feel they have to wait for tale end charlie to catch up. Everyone at their own pace and all that.
He travels fastest who travels alone eh? I quite like riding with a maximum of about three others. Our group at the Manx this year was five, just one more than last year but it made a big negative difference. The perfect number other than one is three I reckon. One to go back and look for the straggler while the other one carries on to an agreed destination gets the teas, manx ices or beers (if returning to base) in as appropriate. Mobile phones help naturally. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pete Fisher at Home: | | Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest Yamaha WR250Z | | Gilera GFR Moto Morini 2C/375 | +-------------------------------------------------------------+
Quite. I hope he's insured. It's not really any different to any clowns who decide say, to organise a track day for others.
Kiran says... I'd quite happily accept that it's at my own risk, it's the same as any other ride out on the road, isn't it? -- Lozzo Triumph Daytona 955i SE (Black with added black bits) GSF600SW (broked) 'I do not object to people looking at their watches when I am speaking. But I strongly object when they start shaking them to make certain they are still going.' William Norman Birkett, 1st Baron Birkett, Oct 1960.
It is difficult to see how simply organising a trip as TOG does could lead to any insurance problems. I think it is the "follow me" bit that raises issues, particularly if the pace set by the person to be followed is "fast". Presumably people taking part must at least sign some kind of indemnity to say they won't blame binning it on trying to keep up with the leader. Remember participants are paying to be 'guided' not just following a mate on a run. If I was organising guided tours I would want to hold public liability cover for a pretty large amount. The professional organisations who ultimately run track days nowadays are not clowns. Someone who block books people for such days is not a clown. Someone who hired a track and let riders loose on it without adequate precautions and legal indemnities would be. In the early days of club organised track time no-one worried too much about it until an incident at an IMOC organised day. As far as I can tell in the UK track day organisers rely on a watertight indemnity signed by all participants to the effect that if someone bins it in front of them and has them off they cannot hold them responsible. I can't see how a standard insurance policy would cover a TP claim for an incident on a track which was not open to the 'public'. In France you *must* have 'responsibilite civile' cover to take part in a track day. This covers you for third party claims if you fetch someone off. Some French standard road policies cover non-timed track use, some do not. My UK policy most certainly did not. so I arranged specific RC cover for each of the track days I did in France this year. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pete Fisher at Home: | | Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest Yamaha WR250Z | | Gilera GFR Moto Morini 2C/375 | +-------------------------------------------------------------+
Champ says... If it wasn't for the 'clowns' then those of us who don't or can't race would never get out on a track, which is something I do believe Kiran has done a bit of in the past. -- Lozzo Triumph Daytona 955i SE (Black with added black bits) GSF600SW (broked) 'I do not object to people looking at their watches when I am speaking. But I strongly object when they start shaking them to make certain they are still going.' William Norman Birkett, 1st Baron Birkett, Oct 1960.
Why do travel agents have liability insurance? It's only really going to be an issue for the type of stuff on UKRM if someone gets seriously hurt or killed whilst on an organised trip. Whilst most here will put their hand up and say I was there at my own risk etc, the family of person killed/injured and/or their insurance company (looking for a third party recovery) might not see it in the same way. Without insurance? Track days are high risk - people can get hurt and I believe have very occasionally died. Certainly from all the track days I have done, I have seen that track day organisers are very strict about limiting their liability, doing proper briefings and then ensuring that no-one on a track day infringes their insurance cover (e.g. lap timers etc). I'm sure you can see why they do this. I'd guess that anyone block-booking places for others (where they could arguably be seen as being rewarded for this by being given a free place) could certainly be in the frame if any liability issues arose. TOG rightly appreciates the chances (however small) of this risk for French runs and ensures everyone signs up to his disclaimer etc.
