Firestorm

Evening,

I got a VTR1000 Firestorm a few months ago and to be honest, it vibrates a
lot (yes, I know its a twin), doesn't want to rev (does grudgingly get to
the red, but vibrates even more in doing so), feels slow (for pities sake
struggled to gain on a Fiat on the way home tonight[1]), it pops, farts and
stalls. And it sounds like a sewing machine.

I thought I'd ask here if this was normal or not - a bit of honest and
unbiased advice.

[1] That sort of sounds bad. Nothing wrong with Fiats [2]. This one was
driven by a twat though [3]. Can I say ****? [4]

[2] Ok. Thats not true, really.
[3] Details available upon request
[4] No, I don't think so. It feels wrong

 

Fiats are SHIT. If you've got a Fiat of any description overtaking
you, the bike is not right.

Roll on 2007, when I can get rid of the heap of shite Fiat that I
have...never again.

--
Lesley
CBR600FW
SBS#11 (with oak-leaf cluster)
BOTAFOT#101A UKRMHRC#12
BONY#54P BOB#18
Real burds don't take hormones, they rage naturally

 

I don't know if you'd call it unbiased but I had one and liked it. Not
the fastest thing out there but by no means slow. Are you sure it's
running on both cylinders?...

 

On Saturday 30 September 2006 00:13, Baloney []

Sounds like my old XV535 Virago which had a fucked carb. It ran on both
cylinders but badly on one of them giving much the same symptoms.

Once fixed, even with the 33bhp restriction kit, it was still quick enough
to piss on most cars on twisty local roads. I imagine a 1000cc bike should
be a bit quicker than my old Virago.

 

2nd'ed.... I had a brava (?) as a hire car for a couple of days last week.
What a gutless piece of shit.
Underpowered and handled as if it had 4 flat tyres.

 

Definitely sounds like a 'lazy' cylinder. Compression, ignition, and
carburation checks required. Could be just a duff plug on one pot, a
knackered carb or more of a pain, a burnt valve.

I went to the Island with a mate on one a few year ago and it went
pretty well, certainly should real in most Fiats (though a Bravo 2.0 HGT
might be a bit of a challenge).
--

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| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Moto Guzzi Mille GT/Squire RS3 Gilera Nordwest |
| Gilera GFR Moto Morini 2C/375 |
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Restricted for hire use? Granted they're not rocket ships, but from a "gut"
pov, they're not usually any worse than any other car of the same capacity.



--
Beav

VN 750
Zed 1000
OMF# 19

 

1.2 and 1.4 engines are really too small for the car in question, so it
would feel a bit gutless.

The 1.8 and 2.0 go well enough, though.

 

I made the mistake of thinking the subject was about a different kind
of firestorm.

If anyone would like a short narrative of how Bomber Command
accidentally invented the man-made version of this phenomenon, I'd be
happy to oblige.

 

Kim Bolton wrote on 01/10/2006 :

Oh, go on then..

 

OK.

[Original authorship acknowledged. Slightly edited]

Hamburg was essentially destroyed in the five raids the made up
Harris' Battle of Hamburg in 1943.

The 4-lb (four pound) incendiary bombs dropped by the hundred thousand
in raids like those on Hamburg were magnesium-based. The 30-lb (thirty
pound) incendiaries contained both phosphorous and magnesium. These
were dropped in much lesser numbers due to considerations of all-up
aircraft weights comprising petrol, bomb-load, and space and hooks in
the bomb-bay.

For a shorter trip like Hamburg, petrol loadings were reduced to allow
greater bomb-loads to be carried. Aircraft like the Halifax, inferior
in performance to the Lancaster, often carried all-incendiary loads
even though this did not comprise maximum use of the aircraft's
carrying capacity, in order to give the Halifax the ability to fly at
heights approaching those of the Lancaster, and thus afford greater
safety from the German nightfighters.

But the particular raid that gave rise to the firestorm had some
notable features, that in the end played into Bomber Command's hands.

This was the second raid in Harris' Battle of Hamburg, and to confuse
the defences, the bombers were routed past the city well to the north,
in a dog-leg that would take them towards the Baltic to threaten other
cities such as Lubeck, Rostock, Berlin. Consequently, the air-raid
sirens announced the bombers' approach in good time.

It came as a surprise, therefore, when some time later the sirens went
off again, and after a little while those who had duties to perform
above ground were surprised to hear the sound of aircraft approaching
from the east.

The Aiming Point was not far from the Rathaus in Hamburg's Altstadt.
RAF planners were well aware of the phenomenon of 'creepback', the
tendency of crews following the initial wave to drop their bombs
earlier and earlier, so that the bombing fell increasingly short of
the target. The answer was to place the aiming-point beyond the target
along the line of the bombers' track. The planners knew that the
creepback would extend to undamaged parts of the city, and so this
happened, but to an extent that was limited due to an unusual
circumstance.

The planners had not seen the significance of Hamburg's racecourse,
which lay exactly on the bomber's approach, about two miles from the
aiming point. The important point about this is that although the
crews in the initial wave bombed close to the
aiming point, creepback then started as expected. However, the
racecourse received bombs and incendiaries, but being an open space,
these caused no fires as there was nothing to burn. As a result, later
crews bombed the fires they could see, and so - unusually - the
bombing remained concentrated between the aiming point and the
racecourse.

It was at this point another phenomenon arose, one that no-one could
have foreseen. The weather in Hamburg had been hot and dry, with no
significant rain for days. But a temperature inversion lay over the
city; cold air holding down the much warmer air of the city. It has
since been calculated that a mere 3 deg C rise in temperature in
Hamburg would have been enough for the warm air to punch its way
through the cold layer - and Bomber Command had arrived with
concentrated bombing and plenty of incendiaries.

It has been speculated that a huge store of sunflower seeds had been
hit early in the raid, and the combustion of these started the process
of the punch-through.

Crews in the middle and final waves reported being able to smell smoke
from the burning city even through their oxygen masks, and it was
clear to them that something unusual had happened. However, it wasn't
for some days that Bomber Command got the first inkling of what had
occurred: the punch-through had started to draw in fresh air from the
surrounding districts to fan the fires already established. This
increased the efficiency of combustion, which in turn increased the
fire's temperatures, which drew in yet more fresh air. The resulting
firestorm reached its peak about an hour after the last bomber left,
and so remained unseen by the crews.

Wind speeds reached hurricane force, temperatures approached 1500 deg
C, all oxygen was sucked out of the air. What the citizens of Hamburg
suffered was quite horrific - nothing like it had been created by man
before this. In this raid the tonnage dropped was 1199 tons of
incendiaries and a similar amount of high explosive. In the five raids
that made up the Battle of Hamburg, just over 4000 tons of high
explosive, and a similar amount of incendiaries, were dropped against
the city.

In case anyone thinks that Bomber Command had things its own way, the
fifth raid on Hamburg is well worth looking in to.

One crew's story is interesting. For their first few raids, they had
been put with the new boys at the back of the bomber stream. In those
days this was 200 miles or about 45 minutes long. Consequently, they
had a grandstand view of the visible elements of the raid's
development: first the Primary Blind Markers' yellow Target Indicators
going down, the Illuminators' flares lighting up the city, the Primary
Visual Markers (usually red or green) going down, and the commencement
of the bombing; all enlived with the (usually) darkened city opening
up with searchlights and flak. Unseen above all the were the prior
arrival of the Window Openers (Mosquito aircraft flying above the
flak, dropping Window (nowadays called 'chaff') to confuse or blind
the radar defences, and bombs to crater roads, break gas and water
mains, and keep the defender's heads down. Somewhere in all this is a
Master Bomber circling the target and giving advice about the
development of the raid and encouragement to the crews.

But for this Hamburg raid, this particular crew had been promoted to
the front of the Main Force attack. They tracked in to the city, which
held its defences and was completely invisible to the eye; they could
see nothing of the target; it was inky black below. Worried, the pilot
consulted the navigator, who assured them they were on time and on
track. Moments ticked away, a mile every 15 seconds or so. Suddenly
the bomb aimer yelled "Yellow TIs below; bomb doors open........bombs
away..." as they dropped their bombs on target and then made their
exit from the target area. Nothing had prepared them for the
responsibility of being at the front of the attack; their previous
experience had been totally different.

 

I thought I'd ask here if this was normal or not - a bit of honest and

Yeah - starts great, doesn't need choke for long. It does suddenly conk out
for no apparent reason at traffic lights etc, but I hear that thats quite
normal for VTRs...

Was gonna check the choke wasn't sticking on today, but didn't get time and
it was pissing down anyway (no garage)

Cheers - any avenues to explore will be appreciated!

 

assured them they were on time and on

Cheers! At least it stopped me thinking about my shit bike for a few
minutes!

 

slow (for pities sake struggled to gain on a Fiat on the way home

The Fiat didn't overtake me, God fobid, but surprised me somewhat. He was
on the motorway, driving like a twat. Then he sat in the outside lane so I
'couldn't' get past him - could have undertook, but didn't trust him and,
ffs, it doesn't really matter (although it does really...). When we headed
off the A14 onto the M11 on a long LH sweeper he put his foot down, but I
think he seemed to run out of bottle at 80ish - again could have squeezed
round the outside but didn't trust him. Again - M11 hogging outside lane -
I wasn't going to undertake - that seems a bit desperate to prove a point
and I'm not that bothered.

Shit- this is even boring me now. May I congratulate anyone still reading
this. But WHY are you?

Then after exiting M11, he pretended he was gonna turn left, but went right
round roundabout (cutting up another car and making me cringe a bit) etc.
Then we hit some traffic on an A road and I thought it would be cooler for
us both to know I could sail past but not, if you know what I mean. I think
I would feel slightly more content if I did though.

So, basically, had to wringe the VTRs neck to haul him in when he first
exited A14. I shouldn't have to wring 1000cc to pull in a fuggin Fiat,
surely! Could have got past easily, had I not thought he was a desperate,
out of control twat who'd do anything to stay in front.

Had some fun with some sort of Suburu the other week - now that was cool.
Very fast and very well driven. Just about had the edge in <120
acceleration (didn't go over that), but the VTR is a pig on a pogo stick
(copyright Performance Berks, circa 1990) round bumpy bends at those speeds.
A cheery wave from both sides concluded this fun - the way it should be.

I'm gonna stop now.

 

Fiats are SHIT. If you've got a Fiat of any description overtaking

Sounds like me talking about the VTR when I get home everynight (apart from
the 4 tyres bit though)

 

Sounds like my old XV535 Virago which had a fucked carb. It ran on both

Hey - perhaps it has a 33bhp kit fitted?!

 

It's def firing on both, but maybe one's not pulling it's weight. Being a
fuckwit, I'm at a bit of a loss though.

Maybe I should get it on a dyno and see what it's making?

 

Right - how would a fuckwit like me check this out? I'll bung some new
plugs in anyway - although the bike had it's 8k service just before I bought
it. Mmm - yes, change the plugs anyway.

Might have been a HGT thingy - it did really go.

 

We had two Bravas (IIRC) as company hire cars, a few years back. One

Look, let me make it clear now that I WAS NOT OVERFUGGIN TAKEN BY A FUGGIN
FIAT! My oversensitive ego wouldn't have dealt with that well and I'd have
taken any risk necessary to prevent that from happening.

But it did make me comment "fuggin hell" to myself when he pissed off down
the slip road. Caught him up - didnt' dare go round the outside, didn't
trust him.

 

If the plug change is an easy job it won't cost much and can't do any
harm. See if the old plugs look very different in colour. If one is much
darker looking than the other that tends to suggest a carburation
problem. Before you go any further though you might be better googling
for a VTR forum to ask the same question.

As a matter of interest what did you have before the Firestorm -
something with more power and more cylinders?


--

+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Moto Guzzi Mille GT/Squire RS3 Gilera Nordwest |
| Gilera GFR Moto Morini 2C/375 |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+