FOAK: Serious Questions, regarding mental issues etc.

Discussion in 'UK Motorcycles' started by JackH, Feb 14, 2005.

  1. JackH

    JackH Guest

    I have a close childhood friend, who up until recently, had been a regular
    cocaine user for several years.

    £50 a day habit, apparently... not being that familiar with such practices
    myself, I presume that's what one might consider a sizeable habit.

    Anyway, he's stopped all that, and is now drinking to compensate, as well as
    continuing to smoke plenty of 'green', even though he's had plenty of gentle
    persuasion that giving the whole lot up as much as possible, might just do
    his head a bit of good.

    And now his life has started to really fall apart (recently split with
    girlfriend, his business has collapsed (through no real fault of his own),
    and now he's been banned for drink driving - not good at the best of times,
    but worse when you live in the middle of nowhere, and you're self employed
    in an industry which requires you to work on various customer sites), he's
    been decidedly random, mood wise.

    Sometimes he seems to have a good day - we don't see much aggression or
    negativity... but other days, the slightest thing can set him off, and he
    lashes out at all around him, mainly verbally, but things including parts of
    his house, and his car / van, have been smashed up in recent times, in fits
    of rage.

    Tonight, it's been my turn to get a heavy dose of 'maybe it's you whose
    fucking my life up for me' style comments, coupled with various threats of
    violence, so I'm almost at the point where I feel I want to walk away and
    leave him to it, except when he's got his normal head on, he's the same good
    mate I used to know.

    My main concerns, given he really is like Dr Jekyell / Mr Hyde at times,

    1. Is he as I suspect, given the sudden change of mood and attitude at
    times, possibly schizophrenic, and if so, is this something that the drug
    abuse could have brought on, or would something have already been not quite
    right in his mind, and the drugs / alcohol have just aggravated it?

    2. How far does he have to take things, before the authorities may consider
    sectioning him for his own good? I really did fear I was about to get a
    good shoeing earlier, for no particular reason (I had nipped down to see him
    at the pub, following a friendly phone call from him earlier in the
    evening), other than he seems to be suffering with paranoia, and I wasn't
    the only one he was kicking off at, big style.

    He is getting no better, that's the worry - the rages are becoming more and
    more common, and whilst I'm not poking my nose in, I just have a real
    concern for someone I've known since I was 12, whose family seem to be
    letting him get on with it, as he's alienated them so much of late, due to
    him constantly changing mood at the drop of a hat, and smashing things up
    all the time, whilst threatening them if they try to calm him down, or even
    if they just happen to be in the same place at the wrong time, and he
    focuses on them for no apparent reason.

    I feel it is only a matter of time before he really hurts or kills someone
    or himself, if he doesn't get help soon, and he won't accept when he's
    acting normally, that things have been going way too far of late when he's
    off on one, hence why I'd like advice mainly on the likelihood of him being
    schizophrenic, and what, if he won't seek help of his own accord, needs to
    be done to get him sectioned should he continue to deterioate.

    TIA for any advice, or agreement with him giving me a good shoeing in the
    near future... ;-)
    JackH, Feb 14, 2005
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  2. JackH

    petrolcan Guest

    the cont known as JackH says...
    Send him my way.
    petrolcan, Feb 14, 2005
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  3. Try to stick with him but there is only so far you can go. You still have
    'you' to think about

    Best of luck mate in what ever you decide to do

    ZX12R-B1 (Blue)
    CG125 (hers)
    Blata Ninja 3.4
    Mark Derbyshire, Feb 14, 2005
  4. It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
    Look up 'cocaine psychosis'.



    GS 850 x2 / SE 6a
    FUB KotL OSOS#12? UKRMMA#19 COSOC#10
    Grimly Curmudgeon, Feb 14, 2005
  5. Lemmiwinks, The Gerbil King, Feb 14, 2005
  6. Not horrendous but about average IME.
    If you're prone to being "fragile", cannabis is one of the worst for the
    head fucks. Paranoia, feelings of persecution etc etc.
    It happens unfortunately and it will take a **** site more work to get
    back on an even keel but don't expect this to happen overnight or even
    within a couple of years.
    Again, it's one of those things. I destroyed loads of property when I
    was "in it". Mood swings is par for the course, that stuff messes with
    your brain chemistry, innit.
    However you feel right now, stick with it and stick with him, I promise
    you he will appreciate it when his time with all this is over.
    It's the drugs. Seemingly normal people with healthy and productive
    lives can go seriously off the rails. I know, I've been there.
    There's nothing you can do, pal. If he wants to have a go he will and
    normal thought won't come into it. It's all those electrical pathways in
    his brain; they're short circuited, innit and instead of taking a path
    from one synapse to another, his electrical path looks like a plate of
    spaghetti and just as confused.
    He will only get better when he stops everything - He won't believe this

    'Swot 'appens, innit. You lose everything, and I do mean everything!
    Only then will he decide to get help. If he doesn't he'll either die or
    end up in prison; sorry mate, but that's the reality.
    He will get better but he has to want to do it for himself and for his
    own reasons.
    Well I can't really give you any advice mate except that it isn't his
    fault and whatever he's doing is through a blur of waking

    If giving him a good shoeing is what you want to do then do, but it
    won't make you feel any better and I promise it won't help him either,
    in fact I'd go as far to say he won't even feel it.
    Whinging Courier, Feb 14, 2005
  7. JackH

    JackH Guest

    Oh, I'm quite realistic about this... it's just I think things have now
    spiralled to a point where he's *definitely* going to end up dead, or inside
    for killing someone else - he's that bad. A couple of weeks ago, having
    decided to leave his car at the pub (in the week just before his drink drive
    case came to court), he got shitfaced, then went off on one - net result, he
    did £7ks worth of damage to his car, spinning it on a bend leading onto a
    dual carriageway slip road, and smashing it backwards into some woods... no
    seatbelt. If the trees hadn't stopped the car, he'd have ended up in the
    middle of dual carriageway and invariably dead, and if he hadn't have hit
    the trees backwards, chances are he'd have been catapulted through the

    And at first, yes... it did seem to calm him down, but within a week, he was
    even worse.
    So what was it, that finally made you realise things needed to change, as
    in, did you one day just wake up all of a sudden and decide enough was
    enough, or did something happen that gave you a big wake up call?
    Maybe he will... but as an example last night, I ended up feeling I had to
    shift the cars away from the house, in case he came round here in a mood in
    his van - slept with a big heavy impliment next to the bed, in case he broke
    in (he kicked his exs door down a few weeks ago, and smashed up her living
    room), and now I think I'd like to leave him to it, but if he calms down and
    then tries to get in touch with me, if I am off with him, he'll store it up
    as something that will come out the next time he is off on one, and if I act
    as if nothing has happened, he'll expect me to go for a beer etc., again,
    and given he was fine on the phone yesterday, then turned on me as soon as I
    set one foot in the pub last night, I feel like I've honestly got to the
    point where I can't put up with it any more - he's making me feel on edge
    all the time, for no good reason, and like most of us, I've got my own
    problems which aren't helped when you're getting unnecessary grief like

    Much as I'd love to beat some sense into him, (at least if I thought it
    would do him any good), there's no chance of that - I know my limits, and
    he's *way* beyond those! As I said, I'm more worried that I'm about to get
    one (for no good reason), now he appears to have turned his focus onto me,
    in terms of the cause of all his problems.

    I'm not the smallest bloke in the world, but I know what he's like in a
    ruck, and if I am brutally honest, he really frightened me last night with
    all this punchiness that came from nowhere - the night before, I'd lent him
    money, bought him some dinner and ordered him a mobile phone in my name, as
    he smashed his own one up a few weeks ago, and it's a bit difficult for the
    self employed to get work if people can't get hold of you - I thought that
    way, if he has no work for a while, at least someone will be paying the
    bill, and it's one less minor pressure on him.

    Earlier in the week, I'd driven his van for him, and helped him do a couple
    of jobs so he could earn some money, as he's finding it nigh on impossible
    to work without his driving licence... when he's got his sensible head on,
    I've counselled him as best I can, tried to help give him more options than
    you'd normally have in his current position, and in other words, tried to
    help give him some specks of light at the end of the tunnel that I can't
    really see starting to end in earnest, until he gets his licence back next
    year, so as far as I am concerned, I'm doing stuff to try and help lighten
    his load, and then from nowhere, threats of violence etc.

    It's a proper headfuck for me, anyway.
    Oh, I know... even if he wasn't off his head, he's never been one to just
    lay down and take a beating!
    JackH, Feb 14, 2005
  8. JackH

    JackH Guest

    Well this is my thinking exactly right now...
    Cheers :)
    JackH, Feb 14, 2005
  9. JackH

    JackH Guest

    Ta... appears it's not a permanent thing, which is good... but he claims to
    have been off the stuff for four months. :-S
    JackH, Feb 14, 2005
  10. JackH

    TMack Guest

    Not likely to be schizophrenic - unless there is evidence of serious
    delusional behaviour such as hearing voices and feeling compelled to act on
    them or extreme delusional/paranoid behaviour (you know, the "MI5 are trying
    to kill me and the postman is one of their undercover agents" kind of
    stuff). There are countless other possibilities including drug and alcohol
    induced psychosis, bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder, brain
    tumour, etc etc. There is also good chance that he he has NO mental
    illness - basically he may just be a rather unpleasant person but he is no
    longer successful at hiding it (in vino veritas and all that)!
    Most likely a pre-existing fragility/disposition exposed by drugs/alcohol.
    Most drug-induced problems are reversible if the person stops taking drugs.
    As long as he continues to smoke dope, drink and possibly take other stuff
    (how sure are you that he has REALLY given up coke?) it will be hard for him
    to get a grip on his life.

    A lot further - unless there is clear evidence that he presents an immediate
    and ongoing serious risk to self or others and that he is suffering from a
    treatable mental illness then there is NO chance of him being sectioned.
    Being aggressive and unpredictable is not sufficient grounds for sectioning.
    You may have to accept that there is little you can do. The odds are that
    he may need to hit bottom before he acknowledges the extent of his problems
    and agrees about the need to do something. You may also need to consider
    cutting your losses and avoiding him (and letting him know why) until things
    improve. Unfortunately, as long as people like you are willing to keep
    accepting what he is dishing out then it will be hard for him to accept how
    low he has sunk. There is a real risk in trying to help people who aren't
    willing to accept it - you may end up becoming part of the problem rather
    than part of the solution.

    TMack, Feb 14, 2005
  11. I used to drive in some right ol' states as well. I'd forget I was
    driving and nod off and then wake up again when I'd hit the kerb on the
    other side of the road or be in the other state of conciseness and think
    I was playing a game, watching the lines peel off the road and stuff
    while the trees were changing colour. BTDT and I also had several T-
    Shirts :)
    I didn't wake up all of a sudden (it's just one of those things that'll
    never happen ;)), it just slowly dawned on me that I couldn't go on like
    it. I had a few what could've been regarded as wake up calls but it was
    the slow realisation that I couldn't carry on. I never felt "ready" to
    stop btw, I just made the moves towards doing it.
    That's all his shit, man. I recognise all that but his motives are his
    own. If you really can't stand it, then distance yourself and get in
    touch every now and again. I still phone some of my old mates but it'll
    never be the same again and all those wasted years are one of my life's
    regrets but there you go; nothing I can do about it now, life goes on
    and people move on.
    Keep out of his way then mate or tell him how you feel. That'll do more
    good than telling him what an arsehole he's being. At least you might
    find out if you're on the "death list" :)
    I'm sorry if this sounds patronising but I feel sorry for you. I can
    remember how I was when people would do stuff like that for me and I was
    nothing but a complete arsehole.
    You won't *really* help him until he decides to help himself. The only
    way I got if it in the end was to be put in a locked ward for nutters on
    drugs. He'll get all the help and counselling he needs there.
    Good luck, man. I've got to go out now for a medical but will be back by
    3 I should think.

    Laters, Gators.
    Whinging Courier, Feb 14, 2005
  12. <snip>

    Jack, this sounds very similar to my brother and I. He is younger than me at
    23 and he has been diagnosed as being schizophrenic. This is 'probably' all
    due to the amount of amphetamine and the shit he smoked. At one point, he
    was taking 8 X tabs a day, obviously they were of a very poor MDMA quality
    as I doubt many people could do that for long and still live. Anyway, the
    mood swings came and my brother had a lot of involvement with Police due to
    his anti-social behaviour. After his diagnosis he was put on medication, but
    like other prescribed drugs, they don't work too well when you take
    recreational drugs. A few years down the line and he is much the same
    person, no improvements. I don't see him as often as I'd like as it is as if
    I'm walking on egg shells when in his company. Last time I seen him was
    Christmas time and whilst having a general conversation. putting the world
    to rights, he got up and smashed the door of my local boozer. Luckily the
    landlord is understanding and no action was taken against us/him. My brother
    stills smokes the shit but doesn't do as many sweeties as he once would
    As for him getting better, well he's been diagnosed for a while now and
    nobody can see the light at the end of the tunnel yet, least of all my
    brother! All you can do is be there when he needs you and bite your tongue
    the rest of the time.
    !Speedy Gonzales!, Feb 14, 2005
  13. JackH wrote
    So there is this bloke I know called Tony. A bit of a lad but aren't we
    all, he likes a beer and a puff and the odd line of white powder here
    and there of a weekend. Nothing special, in many respects very

    About a month before the Great Hurricane he set up in business as a
    Roofer. A good timely move as it turns out, he had work coming out of
    his ears for two years and all of it very profitable. Profitable enough
    that he could afford booze in spirit form and white powder every day of
    the week for breakfast dinner and tea.

    A couple of years later and he had snorted the best part of a quarter of
    a million pounds up his left nostril and a similar amount up his right.
    The house, the boat, the cars, the business, the wife and kids, he spent
    them too.

    Next thing his photo is in the local rag associated with armed robbery
    and a 5year sentence for all sorts of nasty things including the
    firearms offences.

    Did his time and came out and went straight back to the whiter powders.
    I haven't seen him for a few years and given what he has turned into I
    really don't want to.
    steve auvache, Feb 14, 2005
  14. Whinging Courier wrote
    Hail, hammer interface achieved cap'n.
    steve auvache, Feb 14, 2005
  15. JackH

    ogden Guest

    This sounds like a Streets lyric.
    ogden, Feb 14, 2005
  16. JackH

    Muck Guest

    I had a friend that turned into a monster with addition of white powder
    up each nostril. I think that he would have been ok still, if he had
    been bigger in the brain department and smaller in the bullshit department.

    I don't believe anyone can truly control the monster that white power
    unleashes, and if they say they can... it's the powder speaking. The
    only people who seem really upset by this idea, are people who get
    regular nose bleeds. ;)
    Muck, Feb 14, 2005
  17. JackH

    Ben Blaney Guest


    I've stated before: I'm not and have never been addicted to anything,
    and I never will be. So *I* certainly could control the "white

    So take your generalisations and shove them up your arse.
    Ben Blaney, Feb 14, 2005
  18. JackH

    Howard Guest

    Same with me and my brother (RIP).

    AlAnon use the phrase 'tough love' when counselling relatives of

    Keep your distance, let him know why, let him know you will be
    there and don't give any other support (ie money).
    Howard, Feb 14, 2005
  19. JackH

    Muck Guest

    Of course you could Ben, you're Super Boy, you can do anything by
    throwing enough money at it.
    Muck, Feb 14, 2005
  20. JackH

    Muck Guest

    I was trying to lighten up a little, looks like you need to a bit too.
    Muck, Feb 14, 2005
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