FS soon: Ducati ST4-S 2003

It's deffo a dry clutch - I can see that from the pictures.

The slave cylinder is on the L/H/S of the engine and uses a
push-rod which goes all the way through the engine to engage
the clutch. On the wet clutch models the slave cylinder is
built into the R/H/S clutch casing.

Dry clutch:
http://www.blazen.com/mike/monster/SLAVE_1.jpg
Wet clutch:
http://www.giovannimoto.com/uploads/20465d6a66e7b64175760779.jpg

The other give-away is the thick rubber gasket around the
clutch cover. You can take this out (only 3 of the bolts
need removing to remove the cover, not all six) and then
take the spacers out of the rubber gasket and reassemble
without the rubber. This spaces the clutch cover nicely
and allows air in and dust out, without a full vented
cover.

One tip is to keep the clutch clean (hence the venting)
but also to keep the clutch pressure plate bearing lubed
otherwise it can seize and lead to a rotating clutch push
rod which will then wear either the rod or the engine.
You only need a drop of 3-in-1 every couple of thousand
miles, but it's worth doing to prolong the life.

Also, the ST3 and ST4 have an alloy clutch basket and plates
which helps to make the clutch action lighter over the
standard Ducati dry clutch.

 

Interesting... does that apply to any Ducati motor with a dry clutch?

Oh, and how do you know *which* three bolts?

 

Yes - in fact it would apply to any dry clutch tbh.

When the bearing goes you get all sorts of weird symptoms.
They're less than a fiver to replace and are push-fit, but
not always the thing that people associate with the problem.

For example you can get the push-rod spinning so it wears the
two sealing o-rings that are on it, which leads to oil leaks
from the slave cylinder side of the engine case. I've seen
people go through 3 or 4 "dodgy" slave cylinders before they
figure that one out. In extreme cases it also wear the pushrod
pathways out, so no amount of replacement o-rings will seal
them - and that's new cases time. Other effects can be stiff
clutch levers, squealing sounds, etc, etc.

If you inspect the cover closely it should be obvious because
the cover holding bolts are at the level of the cover but the
others are engine bolts so slightly recessed. I've just checked
and it's four cover bolts to remove - the engine bolts are
at 11 o'clock and 8 o'clock, as per this picture which uses
a later (standard) clutch cover that doesn't expose the two
engine bolts:
http://www.milesenglish.com/supersport/images/DSCN0769.jpg

 

< snip >

Fantastic, thanks for all that.

One final question: if you don't *need* the gasket, why do they bother
fitting one in the first place? Just noise reduction? Both of ours are
already fairly noisy, so a little bit more clatter won't make much
difference.

 

Indeed cheers. I knew as soon as it came off the truck. As it was my
first enquiry when I found it on the web I shall be expecting a few more
squid back in the account, making it even nicer.

One day a last revision wet clutch ABS model will come up and it will be
mine!

 

Yes TBF quite a lot of noise but obviously the same as a fancy cut away
clutch cover.
One can buy titanium faced clutch baskets with better tolerances which
don't wear. Allegedly quieter/better. Any experience Ant?

 

My CCM R30 is up for grabs.

P.

 

Noise reduction and corrosion resistance would be my
guess. Ducati fasteners are terrible - the 748 once
developed a beard having used it in (*gasp*) winter
once and not washing it down before putting it away.

I replaced my standard springs and fasteners with
stainless versions before moving onto a slipper
clutch for good measure. Having said that, the
Hypermotard appears to have stainless throughout.
Maybe Ducati have finally twigged that the extra
few pence is worth the spend.

If you're getting a *lot* of noise from your clutch,
check the tolerance between the clutch plate tangs
and the basket - the Ducati wear limit is 0.6mm which
isn't very much at all. The clutch will still operate
fine but it just gets noisier and the basket will get
more notchy the longer you leave it.

The standard combination of steel basket and steel
plates makes a hell of a racket, and they tend to
wear each other at the same time, so you end up
replacing a basket and plates - mucho dosh. The
trick is to use ST alloy plates (as mentioned) because
these then wear out quicker, rather than the basket,
so it makes it less expensive next time round.

You can buy trick titanium faced baskets (as Hog
mentions below) which will wear less quickly, but
I think you'd be better off saving your money and
switching to alloy plates for both wear and the
lighter action it gives.

The other thing you can do is to swap to a 48 tooth
basket, but you would have to replace all the clutch
pack at the same time. Standard plates are 12T so
you're basically spreading the load over 4x the
surface area and should see 4x less wear, IYSWIM.

However, most of these seem to be alloy baskets and
steel plates, so probably wouldn't save much in
comparison anyway!

Personally I have a 48T STM Evo slipper in the 748
which is a joy for caning the tits off it. I'm not
concerned about wear as I was given a load of new
plates for it ... and it doesn't get used much
anyway. The 620SS race bike has a wet clutch which
is a lot less prone to wear than the dry clutches,
althought the earlier 600SS (583cc) used to burn
out very quickly as they just weren't designed for
the abuse we were giving them - an extra plate used
to help these. The Hypermotard has a standard dry
clutch in it right now and I'm tempted to leave it
for the time being until another cheap STM Evo comes
along - not much chance of that!

 

My mate has one on his 998S Bostrom Rep (that was
previously on his 996S) but I think it's just bling
rather than a useful upgrade. His does have replaceable
faces as well, which I thought was a great idea, but
I'm sure that by the time he comes to need a new set
the manufacturer will be long gone off ebay!

As I said above to Eddie, the best combination is to
have the alloy plates and steel basket as the plates
will wear quicker, and they're cheaper to replace.

If you're that concerned you can go to 48T model baskets,
which seems to be de facto in slipper clutches, but
again you really want to be using alloy plates in them
to reduce overall wear.

Having said all that, I'm not convinced that Ducatis
are particularly hard on clutches and have just got
a lot of bad press because people don't know it's a
dry clutch and they sound like spanners in a washing
machine; which is what it should sound like!

 

I saw an 2005 ST4S on the club site; 9k miles, grey, full
service last summer at Cornerspeed, panniers included for
4,950 ono.

Not seen any of the ABS ones come up though!

 

Okay, now I'm confused.

The Monster looks exactly as I'd expect: the clutch cover is the same
shape as the one in the picture, and there's a very obvious geet big
thick rubber gasket.

The 'Fant has the same cover, but there's no sign of a gasket, and no
obvious gap either. Has someone taken out the gasket but not put the
spacers back in?

 

Shocking. And I wonder why people think my choice of winter hack may not
be entirely wise...

I think the Monster clutch is the noisier of the two, and probably worth
checking, but they're different engines so it's hard to compare them to
decide if one is worse than the other.

 

One way to find out - start removing the cover and if oil comes
out then do it back up again ;-)

 

My 996 (1999) and the ST are the best finished most rot proof bikes I've
owned.

 

Heh. I'm pretty sure it's dry, it certainly feels like it. It seems very
grabby at low speeds, much more so than the Monster's.

 

Yup there is a 2005 model around now.
I want the very last 121bhp/ABS/oil clutch model.

I'd buy a new one FFS.

 

nothing wrong with the dry clutches except they rattle like **** sitting
at lights

 

Emailed. If it's still available, that is.