Gasoline - how easily ignited?

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Technical Discussion' started by kevarouza, Feb 19, 2005.

  1. kevarouza

    kevarouza Guest

    I reinstalled my fuel tank recently and splilled a little fuel onto the
    headers when connecting the fuel line. Wiped it dry and when I started
    the bike the fuel vapors started smoking a little.

    I was told this is not a concern as the ignition temperature of
    gasoline is very high (like close to 300F) and it will not catch fire
    without a spark even if the headers get very hot... any truth to this?
     
    kevarouza, Feb 19, 2005
    #1
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  2. kevarouza

    John Johnson Guest

    Any truth to what part?

    "this is not a concern [the smoking header]"
    probably true. If your bike didn't light up the first time, it's
    unlikely to light up later on. Whatever was there has either evaporated
    or burned off by now. I wouldn't make it a matter of habit to slosh
    gasoline around though.

    a search on the ignition temperature of gasoline brought up the
    following, which agrees with my own recollections, more-or-less:
    http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/ShaniChristopher.shtml

    from the above: spontaneous ignition temperature of gasoline: 536F
    piloted ignition temperature: -50F

    So, gasoline might have a high spontaneous ignition temperature, but it
    will light in the presence of some other ignition source at _extremely_
    low temperatures. It doesn't take much of a spark to ignite gasoline
    (just ask Kaybear, or better yet, search for his posts on spark plugs
    and coils). It wouldn't take much of an exhaust leak to introduce the
    potential for a fireball.

    Of course, I also don't know how hot things like your exhaust headers
    actually get, so even if the spontaneous ignition temperature is high,
    it's possible (but again, I really don't know) that you could exceed it
    on certain engine components at some times.
     
    John Johnson, Feb 19, 2005
    #2
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  3. kevarouza

    Ari Rankum Guest

    I've spilled oil on hot car headers and had that catch fire. I imagine
    if oil will ignite, gasoline will, too.
     
    Ari Rankum, Feb 19, 2005
    #3
  4. kevarouza

    kevarouza Guest


    This is odd because oil lubricates at far higher temperatures inside
    the engine. According to Mobil 1 it says the oil does not break down
    until 400F. Quite bizzare.
     
    kevarouza, Feb 20, 2005
    #4
  5. I enjoyed this statement from the above link: "Gasoline is the most
    common flammable liquid and the main cause of injuries among teenage
    boys."
    much of a spark to ignite gasoline (just ask Kaybear, or better yet,
    search for his posts on spark plugs and coils).

    It's the vapors that burn, not the liquids. Anybody who has studied
    fire science knows that wood, or coal, or so-called "flammable liquids"
    don't actually burn, it's the vapors that burn, once the fuel is heated
    to ignition temperature...

    I worked at a waste water treatment plant once. We had a big vessel
    with a burner underneath a bed of ordinary sand. We would heat up the
    sand to about 1400 degrees and start forcing dried sludge powder
    through the hot sand. The sludge powder would start smoking, and the
    smoky vapors were what actually burned. We forced the heat from the
    fire through a boiler, made steam, and drove a steam turbine generator,
    and it was all powered by---partially-digested and dried human shit!

    Incredibly weak sparks will light off a combustible mixture, or even
    cause an explosion if the mixture is just right. Various gases have
    upper and lower levels of explosibility, and we used to have to "sniff"
    vessels in the refinery before we could work in or around them. We used
    a meter called a "Mine Safety Appliance" to sniff for flammable
    hydrocarbons before anybody could go inside a tank or other vessel that
    had contained flammable hydrocarbons...

    And, out on the flightline, when I worked on airplanes, the fuel truck
    drivers would have to hook up cables to discharge static electricity
    from their truck and the fuel nozzle, before they could touch the
    nozzle to the aircraft, which was grounded too, by its own cable...

    Everybody has experienced static electricity discharging as they pet
    their cat on a cold dry day, or walk across a rug and touch a doorknob,
    or slide across their car seat to touch something metal in the car.
    There's not much heat energy in static electricity, but it can and will
    ignite flammable vapors...

    Technicians who refuel airplanes take every precaution to avoid static
    electricity fires...

    actually get, so even if the spontaneous ignition >temperature is high,
    it's possible (but again, I really don't know) >that you could exceed
    it on certain engine components at some times.

    You may have seen photographs of exhaust headers glowing red after
    long hard dyno runs. That's at least 700~800 degrees F...
     
    krusty kritter, Feb 20, 2005
    #5
  6. the headers when connecting the fuel line. Wiped it dry and >when I
    started the bike the fuel vapors started smoking a little.

    I can think of two possibilities for what the smoke actually was, since
    gasoline vapors would be colorless and invisible...

    Was it *white* smoke?

    One possibility is that the gasoline washed some *oil* which had
    previously wept from your valve cover gasket onto your headers, and
    that is what smoked...

    The other possibility is that the gasoline dissolved some of the
    coating on your header and the *coating* is what smoked...

    Every once in a while, when I get tired of the rust specks on my
    Yoshimura header, I will pull it off and re-paint it with high
    temperature barbecue paint. That stuff will smoke the first time I warm
    up the engine, if if I let the bike sit for a week...

    So far as fires on motorcycles are concerned, the only time I can
    remember having a gasoline fire is when my Yamaha engine started
    dieseling and I pulled the fuel hose off the petcock to try to stop it
    from dieseling at high RPM. I don't remember whether I pulled the spark
    plug wires off before yanking the fuel line off (the ignition was
    magneto, with a push button kill switch). I got a little gasoline fire,
    for just a second, because about a tablespoon of gasoline hit the
    cylinder...
     
    krusty kritter, Feb 20, 2005
    #6
  7. kevarouza

    LJ Guest

    I know tranny fluid will ignite easily, with the help of a spark. I worked
    at a gas station in the mid-70's and someone brought in an old squad car and
    asked me to check the tranny fluid level. I accidentally brushed against a
    gizmo mounted on the wheel well as I was withdrawing the dipstick and it
    went up like a flaming sword. Lucky thing I didn't send the whole station
    to kingdom come.
     
    LJ, Feb 20, 2005
    #7
  8. and the problem was a major oil leak onto the exhaust system.

    I had an old beater Dodge once. Oil was leaking out from under the
    valve cover gasket onto the exhaust manifold and it would smoke when it
    got hot. Eventually, the leak got worse and the engine caught on fire
    in the parking lot of K-Mart. I saw a lot of white smoke coming out
    from under the hood, so I opened the hood to look...

    Dumb move, air got to the fire and it got worse. I tried to smother the
    fire with an old overcoat I had in the trunk, but the coat just caught
    on fire, too...

    I closed the hood to keep as much oxygen away from the fire as
    possible...

    Then I ran into K-Mart and asked the greeter for a fire extinguisher to
    put out the fire. The greeter told me that I could *buy* a fire
    extinguisher in the auto parts department...

    I told her that I didn't have time to buy a fire extinguisher, my car
    was on fire...

    She said that K-Mart didn't supply fire extinguishers to customers
    whose cars were on fire...

    About a minute passed and the manager came out with a fire
    extinguisher, put the fire out and apologized for her ignorant
    behavior. But, by that time, my ignition wires and distributor cap were
    all melted...
     
    krusty kritter, Feb 20, 2005
    #8
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