G'day Mat, err Mate..

Mat's toast and congrats to Spies for winning the title..

http://www.cyclenews.com/ShowStory.asp?HeadlineID=12914

Evidently Suzuki wasn't able to find any production bikes with similar
cranks and I wonder why...

 

All the bullshit aside, I've never had any issue with Mat's DQ if his
crank really was non-compliant. My complaint from day one was the
idiotic decision to tear down only Mat's and not Ben's (or Tommy's).
I mean, how stupid can you get when you say "they're all from the same
team so we'll only tear down one of them"? Considering the points
battle, which they obviously didn't, it was a monumentally stupid
move.

 

Well, it was only stupid if it wasn't intentional, and that's the big
unanswered question here. My guess is Mat's crank was strictly
illegal, but the back story on that is what we'll probably never know.
And at the end of the day, I have to believe DMG was quite
intentionally going after Mladin there, and really didn't have that
much interest in tagging Spies or Hayden. Hayden may have gotten
sucked in at RA just because they couldn't only pick on Mat a second
time, that would be too obvious.

What is interesting on this move is how quickly they slammed the door
for good. One wonders if it's just that Suzuki's case was obviously
weak, or if there was never any intention at all to give it any
consideration.

 

I wouldn't go as far as monumentally stupid, though for sure an
opportunity was lost. What deals like this do is to make crew chief's
introspective

 

Apparently, and like I said earlier, finding a production bike with
that particular crank in it was the appeal killer, because without it,
or the promise of producing one damn quick all the paper records in the
world don't matter.
As far as the "slammed the door for good" goes, in most ALL racing
series you must be ready and willing to prove yourself innocent, not so
much be proven guilty and in a homologated series such as AMA SB they
tend to go with what you can prove you sell when there's
"disagreements" and in this case evidently Suzuki couldn't find
one...(because none ever existed to begin with..)

 

Except that:-
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34046

 

I'm not about to say they're above screwing with someone, but a cheater
cryin' about a so-called travesty? Puhleeze.. If Zuki' had actually put
any of those cranks in production bikes they could've easily found a
few, that they did not convicted them and now they cry injustice?
They had their chance to prove themselves innocent and came up a
"little" short, crying about it now only makes them look worse IMO..


http://www.cyclenews.com/ShowStory.asp?HeadlineID=12868

ÒHe needs to provide to us production records for these crankshafts,
vendor information, and the VIN range of the motorcycles that they went
in. ThatÕs part A,Ó Syfan said. ÒPart B is they have to provide a
motorcycle in that VIN range, whether itÕs new or used, and have it
disassembled with an AMA official there."


Heh, only in America can you be caught red-handed then claim you're
being picked on...

 

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34046

--------
On Saturday, August 30th, AMA Special Projects Manager Bill Syfan
informed Don Sakakura of Yoshimura Racing that they must produce
supporting documentation and crankshaft production records and
information by 5:00 p.m. (EST) today. The written submission, along with
an opinion from an independent crankshaft expert, was faxed to the AMA
shortly before 5:00 p.m. (ET) this afternoon. In addition, early this
morning Yoshimura Racing and American Suzuki Motor Corporation delivered
to the AMA offices in Ohio an exemplar crankshaft for inspection and
comparison.
--------

So if Suzuki did what the AMA asked, why was it dismissed out of hand?

--------
Shortly after 5:00 p.m. (ET) today, less than half an hour after the
written submission was timely sent to the appropriate AMA officials, Don
Sakakura and Mat Mladin were notified by phone by Bill Syfan that an
appeal board would not be convened.
--------

Looking from the outside, it looks like whatever was delivered wasn't
what the AMA were looking for. Or they were never even going to look at
it. Or maybe they're fax machine is in the basement and the fax didn't
hit anyone's desk till after the deadline. Or...

Let's hope Suzuki tell their side of the story about what really
happened.

 

You mean man-up and tell the truth? Heh, I wouldn't hold my breath
waitin' for that to happen...

 

Mark, the governing body *always* sets the height of the bar, never the
accused..

What, you think Zuki' doesn't keep records? My ass they don't! Hell,
even GM still has my addy after not owning any of their garbage for
over 2 years, Harley sends me shit all the time and the one in the
garage is based on a '91, Yam got my addy when I transfered warranty on
their shit, so please come up with a more plausible excuse, if any
bikes had those cranks in them they could have been found..

If you're saying that increased durability isn't performance enhancing
you prolly need to re-think that, or whatever..

As per the rules..

Umm, don't get caught cheating?

Seems to me you're the only one glossin' over anything, but that's not
surprising considering who's involved and if recent history says
anything, name-calling is prolly next...








Go Gator's, kick some 'Cane azz!

 

Those aren't mutually exclusive possibilities. The team was clearly
using crankshafts that didn't meet the requirements, yet in spite of
the extremely easy way of determining non-compliance (removing one
engine side cover), the sanctioning body went after one rider in
particular.

Nobody has come out of this mess looking good.

 

I agree, but this was forgone to be a lose, lose deal on it's own, but
just consider the flak if they'd have DQ'd the whole Yosh team at VIR,
ho-li-fook!! Talk about vendetta BS, it wouldn't stop for years!

On another note, I was perusing RRW's archive's and ran across this
little nugget that someone sent in, obviously the dude knows what he
talking about...
http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34024

By Michael Gougis

If the folks from American HondaÕs motorcycle division really are
considering throwing their support behind a new road racing series to
compete with the AMA/DMG series next year, they need to get up from
their desks, walk across the aisle to their automotive racing
counterparts, and say, ÒSo, weÕre thinking of backing a breakaway
racing series. Got any thoughts on that?Ó

When the car guys stop choking and spitting coffee onto their computer
monitors and manage to start breathing again, theyÕll probably gasp out
one word of advice:

DonÕt.

The few remaining fans of open-wheel motorsports in the United States
can remember a time when Championship Auto Racing Teams posed a direct
threat to Formula One on the world stage. I say the few remaining fans
because a decade of competing racing series essentially destroyed
open-wheel racing in the U.S.

Honda was there for the whole thing. When open-wheel racing split in
1996, the company backed CART over the rival Indy Racing League, which
was dismissed as a low-tech, lowbrow form of racing, clearly
second-fiddle to the technologically advanced turbo-powered Champ cars.
Over the next decade, Honda would wind up changing its mind on
virtually every decision it made in open-wheel racing, ending up as the
only supplier of a spec-engined series of normally aspirated cars.

Simply put, if anyone knows the damage that can be inflicted on a sport
by even the talk of a breakaway series, itÕs Honda. While published
reports indicate that Honda and Suzuki are the main proponents of a
motorcycle road racing series that would compete with the AMA/DMG races
next season, Suzuki hasnÕt been through this before. Honda has.

ItÕs not an exact analogy, but itÕs pretty close to what I feel would
be a worst-case scenario for next year in motorcycle road racing. When
open-wheel racing split, the IRL was viewed by many as the breakaway
series. But really, itÕs more accurate to view CART as trying to break
away from Indy. When it went its own Indy-less way, CART was
well-armed. It had the stars, more advanced cars, and many of the
traditional race venues locked up. When CART went public in the last
part of the decade, it had a war chest of more than $100 million.
Honda, Toyota, Ford and Mercedes-Benz provided engines to teams. Honda
and Toyota dug deeper than others, paying driver salaries and offering
technological advantages (wind tunnel time, etc.) for favored teams.

And CART was a team-owned series. In other words, those manufacturers
had in open-wheel racing what proponents of a breakaway series are
calling for in motorcycle road racing: A manufacturer-run program,
well-funded, with everything except the seriesÕ signature event. And at
the beginning, it seemed to work well. CART ran a 500-mile race at
Michigan on the same day as the Indy 500 in 1996, and winner Jimmy
Vasser took a swipe at one of the longest traditions in motorsports
when he sneered, ÒWho needs milk?Ó (Traditionally, the winner of the
Indy 500 takes a swig from a bottle of milk in Victory Lane.)

But it all fell apart.

One key miscalculation: The presence of Indianapolis in the American
racing publicÕs consciousness. CART forgot that its stars and the
popularity of all the other events were based on their link to Indy.
And as the years piled up, CART became defined in the publicÕs mind as
the open-wheel cars that DIDNÕT do the Indy 500. Race promoters were
unable to ask fans to come to their races to see the winner of the Indy
500, as theyÕd done for years. Attendance at CART events fell year
after year. Road America, Laguna Seca, Mid-Ohio Ð all venues that once
hosted massive open-wheel celebrations Ð either fell off the calendar
or saw attendance drop to a fraction of what it once was. Teams and
drivers, too, pined for the chance to win at what they felt, in their
hearts, was the one race Ð the only race Ð you had to win in your
career. Everything else paled compared to a win at Indy.

Another key miscalculation: The gamble that manufacturers would always
be able to get along. With varying budgets, marketing plans, and other
influences, the infighting intensified. Within six years, all four of
the manufacturers left CART, which wound up buying an engine company,
building a spec turbo motor, and leasing it to the teams that still
wanted to come play Ð which were fewer and fewer each year. As
manufacturer support dropped off, teams found it easier to sell
themselves to sponsors who knew only one word when it came to
open-wheel racing: Indy.

Honda literally threw a fit Ð ÒIt was a very emotional announcement,Ó
Robert Clarke, now president of Honda Performance Development, told a
news conference Ð over CARTÕs proposed rules changes in 2002 and
announced it was leaving open-wheel racing in the United States. A
cynic might have noted that Honda was looking for a way to desert a
sinking ship.

A few months later, Honda changed its mind. The low-tech IRL that it
once dismissed? Honda would provide engines for that series. HondaÕs
longtime policy of in-house technology development? Tossed out the
window. In its rush to do a U-turn and get into the IRL for 2003, Honda
basically badge-engineered an Ilmor powerplant. HondaÕs disdain for
spec racing series? That went by the wayside in 2006, when Honda agreed
to provide identical engines to everyone racing in the IRL. Time after
time, Honda wound up eating its own words.

When the two series reunited this year, 12 years after ÒThe Split,Ó
Honda found itself the only engine provider in a series it once turned
its back on. But it wasnÕt exactly the same series. Overall attendance
was a fraction of its former self; the TV ratings for its non-Indy
events now are somewhere around infomercial levels. HondaÕs
technological challenges Ð its oft-cited reason for racing Ð have
basically been reduced to questions of production rather than R&D. ItÕs
not about getting more horsepower, torque, reliability or speed; itÕs
about making enough race engines for all the teams.

And quick, name the last three winners of the Indy 500. There was a
time when they were cultural heroes, even outside the world of
motorsports. Now, they couldnÕt get arrested.

Is there a parallel here? Stronger than you might suspect.

Substitute ÒDMGÓ for ÒIRLÓ and ÒDaytonaÓ for ÒIndy 500Ó and you get
pretty close. DMG and the IRL are well-funded organizations headed by
strong-willed, richer-than-hell individuals who donÕt mind being called
names and are willing to spend money to keep their organizations afloat.

And like the IRL owned the Indy 500, DMG owns the most well-known
national motorcycle road race Ð the Daytona 200. Like Indianapolis,
Daytona has a resonance with the American motorsports public that only
Indy comes close to. Everyone knows what the Daytona International
Speedway is. YouÕd be hard-pressed to find an average motorsports fan
in the U.S. who could find Road America on a map. Hell, youÕd be
hard-pressed to find an average motorsports fan in the U.S. who could
find Road Atlanta Ð even if you gave them a map of Georgia. And ask any
national-level motorcycle road racer what race they would like to win
if they could only win one race in their lifetime. Dollars to dimes the
answerÕs Daytona.

So if the motorcycle manufacturers start their own series, they may
well wind up in a situation exactly like the CART of old. They may have
money, machines, and the established stars.

But they will be competing against someone with as much or more money,
someone with media savvy, a series of tracks with traditional events,
and who Ð perhaps crucially, history suggests Ð owns the series that
will hold the only motorcycle road race that many Americans have ever
heard of. The manufacturers will constantly be explaining that theyÕre
not the group that races at Daytona. ItÕs an argument I wouldnÕt want
to have to make. Simply put, the American fan doesnÕt have that kind of
time and attention.

And the manufacturers will have to do this while resolving disputes
between themselves by themselves Ð and then convincing everyone else
(privateers, outside sponsors) that theyÕre playing fair among
themselves and also not making ÒgentlemanÕs agreementsÓ among
themselves.

Breakaway series have a lousy track record. Honda backed a one-year
split in Supercross in 1984, but that rift was quickly repaired. The
CART/IRL fiasco has had one positive outcome. When rifts threatened to
develop in other series (as was the case in Formula One), all someone
had to do was say, ÒLook at what happened in the United States,Ó and
everyone came back to the negotiating table Ð quickly. No one wanted to
create the next CART/IRL. Seriously, can anyone name a successful
breakaway series that survived while competing with its predecessor? If
there is one, itÕs a rarity.

The damage to open-wheel racing, many feel, may be beyond repair. The
fan base fractured. Outside-the-industry money gravitated to NASCAR.
Few fans truly, honestly, believe that IndyCar racing will ever reach
the level again where Formula One feared it on the international stage.

While Suzuki, Kawasaki, and maybe even Yamaha might be looking into a
breakaway series with some level of naivety, Honda knows better. Its
representatives have been involved in CART, the IRL, the threatened
manufacturer-led Formula One breakaway. Honda knows the odds of it
being successful with a similar plan for motorcycle road racing are
extremely long at best, and the potential damage to itself and the rest
of the sport catastrophic. Even rumors can damage the chances of teams
getting sponsors. While the DMG show might not be perfect (IÕve got
real issues with the Ôrun in the rainÕ plans for some tracks), creating
an opposing series would cause far more problems than it would solve.

Talk of a breakaway series needs to stop Ð now.

 

That's only clear if you believe what DMG says about the crank.
Assuming what they said about it is correct, then the question shifts
to whether or not it's a production crank that hasn't been modified
beyond what the rules allow. Even if so, it might well properly be
ruled as non-homologated and therefore illegal, but at least it would
be established as stock and therefore probably not an intentional
violation, or at least only a technical violation, and perhaps the
penalty would/should be reduced.

But now we'll never know for sure what it was, or the merits of the
case Suzuki made. And there remains the huge question of DMG's
behavior, which might well be exactly what they want - don't mess with
us or we'll find a way to f*ck you up, it's our show...

yet in spite of

And without a terribly coherent explanation for that.

No, but perhaps with point made. And at this point it seems quite
unlikely that either Mladin or Suzuki will be racing in their series
beyond Laguna, so I imagine DMG hardly cares. This is what you get
with dictatorships driven by egomaniacs...

 

Sniff, sniff, nah, smells kinda' stale..

It's prolly best to wait till you find some new material..

Oh yeah, sorry 'bout yer boi, I tried to tell 'ya, but no..

Maybe one day you'll understand, then again, maybe not..

Oh well....

 

I'm certainly not going to dispute the logic of that article, save for
one point.

While I appreciate the history of Daytona, and its legacy, I'm still
wondering if it really still holds the prestige that it once had, and
that if it doesn't, then it's because they did it to themselves.

The Daytona 200 has most definitely suffered in the past several years.
Notably by going to FX, but also simply by being overshadowed by the
bigger event that is Bike Week. Where you have a bazillion motorcycle
enthusiasts, yet no one comes to the race.

In the past, the 200 was, most certainly, The Race to win. Past couple
of years, it's has only been The Race to win for Honda, and last year,
for Yamaha. But, really, nobody else shows up. Not at the factory level,
not at the "star" level.

Hell, nowadays it's as if the most famous racer at Daytona is Rick Shaw,
lap record holder at Daytona, but not it the classic sense, and notable
for getting bumped from the grid with EBoz's flying lap on the Ducati in
the last Super Bike Daytona.

Now, DMG is going to run DSB, which doesn't really excite, well, anyone,
apparently. The series may well even visit the track twice in the
season, though most likely only the first will be a 200.

And, the 200 hasn't been on broadcast or free cable TV for years. It may
run, but nobody is watching it -- they don't have the opportunity.

As an enthusiast (yes, I agree I'm not part of the general public), the
premiere racing event in this country for past 10+ years has been
Laguna. Particularly back in the WSB wild card days. But even today,
overshadowed by the GP, AMA Laguna is still THE race, because that's the
race where everyone shows up -- factories, fans from around the worlds,
riders, pundits, and celebrities. It's the event.

GP Indy, actually, has a chance to overshadow it -- maybe. Because of
the Power of Indy. Because it might become more of a broadcast media
darling than was GP Laguna is. Who knows.

Admittedly, particularly here in the west, we have Daytona viewing
parties (we have a great one at a local Hoo-Hoo-Hooters here, place is
packed). We don't do those for Laguna, simply because we just get up and
go see it.

I dunno if you saw any community reaction for something like a GP
viewing party out by you for Laguna.

Anyway, yea, the 200 had some prestige, but I think it's a bit tarnished
now. Maybe DMG can bring back the luster, if by no other means than
simply getting a broadcast contract to show the race instead of channel
607, with special viewing pack Q, deep in the satellite TV channels.

The American Motorcycle racing public has less to lose than the open
wheel public did. We have no standing as it is, and I don't think we're
here solely for Daytona today.

I'm not advocating a split, but, really, we simply don't have that far
to fall -- so, maybe it's worth a jump for some.

Regards,

Will Hartung

 

More from Mladin's crew chief.

http://www.mcnews.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=16981&page=3

 

So T3. What do you think was in the documents that Suzuki provided by
the deadline? And what was the crankshaft that they provided in the
morning?

 

Sun, 7 Sep 2008 02:05:14

WooH!

Given the money involved and the likely appearance of lawyers (guns and
money), why is PD from Suzuki leaking this stuff on an Australian
bulletin board? Is this information kosher?

The following information makes perfect sense and is entirely within the
rules. There's at least a possibility that this is exactly what Suzuki
did and that they have not been cheating, bending the rules or whatever.

---
It's been a practice for many years in racing that you try and use best
production parts. The GSXR crank in part number has not changed since
2005, however the part itself has had some cosmetic updates over the
years. When we had the offer from the factory in 2006 to get this we
took it and ordered in the vicinty of 50 cranks. All have near perfect
phasing, all are nearly identicle in weight (there is a 600 gram
tolerance in GSXR1000 cranks and ours are bang in the middle) to keep
the engine feel the same, all journals are near identical in size.
---

---
The issues the AMA has with the cranks are all visual. They claim the
color is different to there "new" sample, ours is darker. There could be
many reasons for that including the forging process, oil type, age,
tempreture etc etc. We pulled about 20 cranks out of Suzuki's warehouse
and there were about 5 different colors out of the box.

The other major point of contention is do with ID markings. Some years
age Suzuki used an "ink type stamping method to identify when the crank
was made, these used to wear of or could be removed with some good
chemicals. Now they use a mechanical stamp that imprints into the crank.
Ours cranks were from the older process and hence in their mind not the
same as the sample they had.

Then we have the marking that identify the crank journal sizes for
installing the correct bearing. Well as any reasonable engine builder
would do we polish/linish the bearing journals
and re-balance the crank which is all ok by the rules. The engine
builder then removed the markings as they we no longer correct, and put
the correct markings using an electric pencil.

 

Which only leaves two things.
2. On the control part and two additional sample parts all have
consistent significant chamfering on the oil delivery holes. The #6
Suzuki crankshaft had no chamfering on any of the crank bearing or rod
bearing oil delivery holes.

What if Suzuki changed this between 2006 and 2008? What if the (legal)
process of polishing the bearing surfaces removed the chamfering?

3. The crankshaft from the #6 Suzuki was much darker in color than the
three control parts with a smoothness and texture not found on the other
three. The consistent sharp edges found on the three control crankshafts
are smooth on the #6 Suzuki crankshaft.

Again, what if Suzuki changed this between 2006 and 2008?

There's at least a possibility that Suzuki *were* playing by the rules
and the documentation of all this they provided for the appeal showed
that.

My gut feel is that this is the final nail in the coffin for US
Superbike racing. No manufacturer is going to want to play if this is
the way they are treated. Not just Suzuki but all the others. And at
least for 2009, there won't be an alternate series because nobody will
be able to get it all together in time. Sad.

 

And beyond the current deal with the crank - it looks like the witchhunt
started early and continuously just looking for an excuse:



AMA tech checks in 2008 for our team.

Daytona. Mladin bike taken behind closed doors and no team members permitted while AMA inspectors
did ???

Barber, Mladin and Spies bike taken again as above. Then AMA makes stupid statement that they feel
Tommy Hayden not getting same parts due to differences in engine numbers. Our engine all built from
parts and staff put own engine numbers.

Fontana, Mladin crank, Spies crankcase and Hayden cylinder head all removed for inspection after
the races. Mladin conrods also requested until we pointed out to AMA that under the rules conrods
are free so why do you want them.

Infineon. Mladin and Spies camshafts removed and profile checked on cam doctor. Regulation states
profile is free only valve lift is limited, we ask AMA why are they doing this with no other
response our than, "because we can.

Team finds out later new head tech inspector has and still operates a race tuning business
preparing race bikes for customers.

All the above is during the first 4 races of the year. Suzuki contacts AMA and lodges complaint
about the situation including ethics, conflict of interest, targeting and liability issues with the
above techinal inspections.



Also interesting to note:


A few other details for you before I continue on the cranks itself. Some of the people that are
involved from AMA in the DQ as follows.

Roy Janson, who funnily enough is/was the main man in the Jordan team negotiating deals and
contracts for team including 2008.

Bill Syfan, EX employee of American Suzuki.

These are the 2 guys who make the calls under the new manager Roger Edmonson and none of them have
a technical background to speak off.



Bruce