Griso 8v

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/2008-moto-guzzi-griso-8v-68608.html

"And yet, the spec sheet numbers or anything I've read about this new
motor couldn't prepare me to what happens when you hit 5000-5500 rpm.
The new-school big-block-based motor starts to bark like a scalded
dog, pulling madly to 8000 and accelerating the Griso in almost
violent fashion. My eyes catch a glimpse of the rev meter's needle
flying about, my bum feels the trust, my arms tense but still, deep
inside I can't believe it's a Guzzi. Where's this and where's my old,
lazy and long-legged Le Mans III?

According to the specs, overall gearing seems to have grown compared
to the 1100 Griso but still is on the short side of short, and through
the frantic acceleration I find myself booting the gears in a very
un-Guzzi-like, rapid-fire fashion. The hike in power at top end is so
steep that with this shortish gearing, at 100 mph in top gear, the
pull actually seems to grow stronger, and seconds later my neck
muscles have to fight against the 120-mph air blast. Therefore, any
"what she'll do?" checks became irrelevant quite quickly. I have
little doubt that the Griso could do, un-faired as it is, 130-140 mph,
but it's a totally unpractical proposition.

When the time to slow down a bit came about, the wavy rotors and fully
radial Brembo set up did an excellent job. There's plenty of power and
braking feel in there for road use."

Zebee

 

Well, in the unlikely event of anyone actually getting one, a Triumph
Street Triple is supposed to have 108 ps, from 675 cc.

I suppose I should wait to see _both_ Triumph and Guzzi, but I'm just
forced to snigger.

My mythical motorcycle is better than your mythical motorcycle....

regards,
CrazyCam

 

Only if they shortshifted early out of second...

JL

 

'Ang on a second, if you're going to compare tech specs, you'd better
line up apples with oranges, as we all know it's not just HP that
counts, it's power to weight. Assuming the above article is accurate,
489pounds equals 222Kg DRY weight.

So...with 108Hp and 245Kg wet (plus or minus 5Kg), just about every
bike you've mentioned (and you left off my bike - X Raptor) is going
to have significantly better numbers. Same HP but much lighter.

My bike is comparatively long in the tooth but
2004 X raptor 215Kg wet and dyno'd at 112HP (stock is 104).
http://www.cagiva.com.au/welcome/docs/XtraRaptor1000spec.pdf

The SV1000 has the same power at the griso 108HP (according to you,
it's not on the website but your number sounds about right) and 186kg
dry plus 17(fuel) + 3 (oil) so say 206 -> 210Kg tops
http://www.suzukimotorcycles.com.au/specifications.php?intBikeID=148

Aprilia Tuono
Factory - 139Hp, 181Kg dry plus 18L + oil say 22Kg - 203Kg 205 tops
The lower spec Tuono has the same HP and weighs an extra 4Kg so call
it 205 -210Kg

http://www.aprilia.com.au/pdfs/tuonofactory07.pdf
http://www.aprilia.com.au/pdfs/tuono2007.pdf

Ducati 2V 1000 is 178Kg dry, and 95Hp plus 14L plus 4L of oil, say
196Kg -200 tops. The 4V S4R is 177Kg dry so say under 200kg and 130Hp.

So what you really meant is compared to other Guzzis it's a high
performance model ?

I don't mean to knock it - it looks and sounds like it'll be a lot of
fun, but as a naked twin sports bike it's the fat kid a lap down in
the 800m at the school sports carnival...

JL

 

What about torque and of course the big one , how and where the "power"
comes on ?

 

Well if you're driving a truck, or the motorcycle equivalent (a 350Kg
cruiser) then yeah, torque matters, but power to weight is what
matters on a sports bike.

Yes the 1200 Guzzi will undoubtably have more torque, but that's not
going to help fix it's obesity problem. Will probably make it easier
to get up on the back wheel though !

It's down 30HP on the naked twins in the same price category, and it's
10 -15grand dearer than bikes with the same HP but far better power to
weight. It's a nice try but it's going to continue to be a niche
player for the died in the wool guzzisti and those who want something
different. In other words I'd probably buy one if I had unlimited
funds and a very large shed !!

JL

 

I would consider it if and when the Buell dies or a break it from
thrashing to much
Weight wont help but I tend to roll the motor slowly and let it pull
out of corners... more relaxed as I have to ask how wearing would be 10k
revs for 4 or 5 days on a decent scoot ?
I did Brisbane to the Alice on v7 years ago and the others all on
jappers were much more shagged than I

 

Maaaate. Read what I wrote. It's down 30HP on the twins IN THE SAME
PRICE (ie the tuono and the S4R), the Jap twins are heaps cheaper and
even the 2V Monster 1000 is noticeably less I think (note going from
memory on that last one).

I did forget about the Buell though - yeah the Buell and the Griso are
in the same market space - price and power to weight (although for
different reasons).

VTR isn't a naked, it's a semi naked same as the SV1000S btw, but
ignoring that minor pedanticism, yeah the Buell is in a similar space.
I'd have thought the R12 lined up against the Breva not the Griso -
it's clearly a sports tourer not a naked sports bike. Ditto the VTR
its not a naked sports never was - always aimed as a sports tourer.

So line up the SV1000, a Tuono Factory R, a Griso8V, the 2v and the 4v
Monster and you've got a fair comparo. Having ridden 3 of the 5, (not
the S4R or the Griso 8V) and having read that test I'm pretty sure I
know which wins as the outright naked sports bike (Factory R - but a
short arse like me would probably buy the S4R for the ergonomics).
Bangs for buck it's the SV1000 - at all of about 13K on road even if
you add 2K for an ohlins shock you've still got plenty of change in
your pocket over the Griso.

And no, suspension doesn't compensate for heft, it just allows you to
do the weightlifting more smoothly !

JL

 

<snort> Bollocks ! Acceleration is a combination of WEIGHT (inertia),
power and gearing. You're confusing turning force at the crank (engine
torque) with turning force at the rear wheel. The less weight you have
to shift, the less the inertia you have to overcome to increase the
velocity. Gearing just changes the amount of turning force at the rear
wheel. Shortening the gearing compensates for low torque. On a big
torque engine it's a strange choice. I guess it's meant to be a low
speed hoon machine rather than anything else - same reason the Raptor
has gearing like a stunt bike.

More torque at the crank will allow you to run a higher gearing which
*may* shorten your ET over a quarter mile *IF* it saves you a gear
change in a manual vehicle. On the other hand a taller rev limit with
the same HP and gearing will give a shorter ET.

Short gearing, low rpm limit (8K) higher weight and relatively higher
torque compared to the Aprilia, the Duc or the SV mean it *may*
accelerate more quickly within very narrow bounds ( say a top gear
roll on from low RPM for the first 100 yards perhaps) but I'd bet
money on the other three disappearing off into the horizon pretty
quickly under just about any other circumstances.

Mmm well I geared the raptor more highly than it shipped back up
towards what the SV has because the gears were too close together and
you couldn't use the torque well. It's much quicker now that you can
use the 6000-10,000 rpm range better. Short gearing just gives you a
very narrow speed window before you have to upshift.

It's in a different forest, but it's not a bad forest - it's over
there with the Buell and the BMW in the unusual but interesting
woods !!

JL

 

I guess that's going to depend which Buell you have, if it's an older
model then yeah, the Griso would be a great upgrade - if its a
firebolt then mmm maybe.

Not particularly on a motor that's designed to rev like that...how
much less stressful to ride 4 or 5 days on a bike that wasn't shaking
like a cement mixer ?

Good on ya.

JL

 

While I mostly agree (I've had the X-Rap up to 254 indicated - it's
not impossible to go over 160), really short gearing doesn't
necessarily maximise acceleration - there's a tradeoff between how
long you can stay in a gear and max geared torque at the rear wheel.
But yes, I'm being pedantic, lets assume Guzzi optimised the 0-160
acceleration. The trouble is that then is the opposite of what you
want for your argument below -

<Grin> and at my weight it's almost 20%. Either way it's still carting
more weight for the same HP, so if it's 10% more then it's got a 10%
performance penalty.

Having said that, for performance, rider weight is less important than
bike weight- bike weight is fixed in place - you can only move it by
suspension adjustment. Rider weight can be hung off the side and is
therefore less consequential - so the fact the Griso is 25% heavier
than it's lightest rival *is* consequential.

Heheh, yeah right, the 06 R1 will do 160K in first gear, it launches
plenty hard enough to leave most anything behind.You're mentally
comparing a Bandit with a 600/4 supersport I think. Comparatively less
torque certainly isn't the sort of torque curve you get from a 2stroke
250.

Besides which, so what if you do use revs ? Give a 600 s/s a fistful
and it goes plenty quick.

So you buy a naked sports twin and ride it like a sports tourer ? Buy
the sports tourer then ! You want a Breva you do ! (Or maybe a
norge <grin>)

Kidding around aside, the Griso looks great, has OK HP from 1200cc
(all its competitors are getting as much or more from 200cc less -
wait until the 1200 monster and tuono hits, it's going to look a
little sick then.) and a bit too much weight. Not bad, but not a
category killer - it's the same problem BMW faced.

JL

 

John, you know fat chicks are more fun. If you had some skinny runway model,
you'd get there quicker, sure.

Theo

 

Awww I dunno, it sounds like Kate Moss is a lot of fun...

http://blogs.smh.com.au/magwatch/archives/2008/01/just_the_four_of_us_kates_part.html

JL

 

I am not going to click on that. Probably a link to Clem's Chrissy photo.

Theo

 

But if HP was really all that important you wouldn't buy a twin in the
first place, you'd buy an inline multi like the Speed Triple, Z1000 or
CB1000R. The Griso is all about displaying your affluence and patrician
tastes. If you own one, you don't do drags or take it to the track; you
don't do stoppies or wheelies; and you're satisfied with something that
will do no better than twice the legal speed limit of any road outside
the Northern Territory.

The Alfa Romeo of the two-wheeled world, probably.

 

I could never work out why stoppies ?
last bloke I saw try it flipped and did serious damage to his japper
he was hurt as well

 

A lot is to do with the reason for doing them.

If someone is doing them to extreme, as a "look at me, ain't I a hero."
then it's not too smart...unless, of course, they are very good at it.

OTOH, if one is practicing emergency stopping, which is not a bad idea,
a surprising number of motorcycles will pick up their back wheel under
heavy braking.

I was quite surprised to find that a Honda SL230, stopping from 25 kph,
can get its back wheel off the ground under brakes.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

He wasn't and this was the scenario
Hence a broken jappa and rider , the face plant was funny until we
realised he was broken badly .

 

I take your point but not necessarily - the S4R and Tuono have as good
a HP as the Speed Triple etc There's also both advantages and
disadvantages to the power curves and weight distribution of twins vs
transverse multis

Indeed - it remains out on the ragged fringe rather than being a top
shelf naked sports twin.

JL

 

It's a top shelf *air-cooled* sports twin


G-S