He's bought a stolen bike

Discussion in 'UK Motorcycles' started by The Older Gentleman, Jun 27, 2010.

  1. The Older Gentleman

    Beav Guest

    No, he'll have to return the money the next buyer paid him, if it ever gets
    seized. It's the buyers responsibility to make sure the vehicle is
    "straight", but if it turns out to be a ringer and plod can find the last
    seller, it's him wot'll end up out of pocket, so our hypothetical pal will
    get stiffed if he tells plod and they take it off him, or he'll get stiffed
    if he sells it and plod seize it from the latest owner.

    If he just rides it and gets it MOT'd and no-one notices it's a ringer, then
    that's the cheapest (to him) option and the one with the least aggro in the
    long term.

    He should bin the bike when he's done with it though, and not try to sell it
    on.
     
    Beav, Jun 28, 2010
    #41
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  2. The Older Gentleman

    Andy Bonwick Guest

    What are your views on people who sell frames that are totally fucked
    but because they've got the correct documentation they're worth decent
    money?

    I've sold a frame that was so badly twisted that you couldn't get the
    tank to sit straight and I cut the engine out of it but I needed the
    money to buy another bike after smashing that one up so ignored the
    fact that the reg number would be on a stolen bike within weeks.

    I'm not the only poster here who's taken the cash and ignored reality
    btw.
     
    Andy Bonwick, Jun 28, 2010
    #42
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  3. The Older Gentleman

    Steve Guest

    As have most people who've bought a bargain part on Ebay really....
     
    Steve, Jun 28, 2010
    #43
  4. The Older Gentleman

    Pip Luscher Guest

    Somewhat different to a forged VIN number, but I was once sold a dodgy
    motor - the breaker took it out of the frame while I wandered round
    town.

    When I came to pick up the motor, there it was, sitting on the shop
    floor with a bundled rag casually dumped on top of the gearbox case.

    The chap was awfully helpful, insisting on putting the engine into my
    car boot himself.

    Only a day later when I went to fill out the docs did I see the fact
    that the old number had been crudely filed off and a plain number (no
    prefix code) stamped unevenly in its place.

    So I sweated overnight and next day, in some trepidation, rang the
    police.

    The reply was along the lines of "well, it's not actually illegal to
    change an engine number. Is there any sign of the original number? No?
    Well, there's no way of identifying a previous owner without very
    expensive forensics, you see. OK, I'll just consult a colleague....
    no, we're not concerned but if you want, here's the phone number of
    the <some sort of vehicle crime squad> ...they're not open on weekends
    so you'd have to call them next week...>

    I never rang the number. The engine got used; DVLA accepted the odd
    engine number. Later, when its head gasket went, it was raided for
    useful spares and the cases scrapped. A hybrid motor from the best
    bits of both engines was put back in the bike, now with the original
    number. And that was that.
     
    Pip Luscher, Jun 28, 2010
    #44
  5. The Older Gentleman

    sweller Guest

    I'm not so sure.

    I meant 'they' as in the police rather than ebay - the police could get
    the seller's details from ebay easily enough.

    I suspect this will be seen as an easy job so the police would pursue it.
     
    sweller, Jun 29, 2010
    #45
  6. The Older Gentleman

    SIRPip Guest

    <slap>
     
    SIRPip, Jun 29, 2010
    #46
  7. The Older Gentleman

    Krusty Guest

    You don't know that's what'll happen though - there are genuine reasons
    for buying a reg doc[1]. And you're not potentially stealing money
    directly from an innocent buyer.

    It's not something I'd do though unless I knew for certain what it was
    going to be used for.

    [1] Building a special that you don't want on a Q plate, or getting a
    track bike on the road etc. Not legal maybe, but not involving bike
    theft.
     
    Krusty, Jun 29, 2010
    #47
  8. The Older Gentleman

    Hog Guest

    Thats the best advice so far. In a situation like this, with not huge money
    invested, tell him to keep it and ride it into the ground. That's the
    lightest penalty all round for having bought a ringer.

    I looked over a car 20odd years ago for a g/f and missed that the floor pan
    area with the chassis number had been welded in. I knew the car had been
    resprayed. It was all nicely done. Only realised when rust appeared where it
    shouldn't. The seller was long gone from the pikey estate when we went back
    to "discuss". It wasn't new and hadn't cost much so I kept plod out of the
    picture and took responsibility, ran it into the ground commuting then had
    it crushed 18 months later.

    It lost me maybe £500 extra over the period. It might cost your friend that
    or up to a grand written off over 2 or 3 years. I've trashed that much in a
    single weekend being silly with drink overseas so WTF. It was obviously a
    bike he liked, and wanted, so tell him to forget the numbers and just enjoy
    it.
     
    Hog, Jun 29, 2010
    #48
  9. The Older Gentleman

    Beav Guest

    Why are there shit loads of ringed bikes in police pounds up and down the
    country where the original owner can't be traced? Why aren't they with the
    last person to "buy" them? Probably because without a proper history or
    proof that "x" vehicle is even roadworthy (some fucking dogdy ringers out
    there), Plod don't want them rolling around our streets threatening the
    safety of the children.
    Having seen a few reports about how interested Plod are [1] in getting eBay
    to do anything, I'm not totally convinced.
    If eBay gave them details and if the Plod bothered to pursue it.

    [1] None.
     
    Beav, Jun 29, 2010
    #49
  10. The Older Gentleman

    Beav Guest

    Common parlance these days, so "sort of" acceptable.
     
    Beav, Jun 29, 2010
    #50
  11. The Older Gentleman

    CT Guest

    Troo enough but...
    NFW!
     
    CT, Jun 29, 2010
    #51
  12. The Older Gentleman

    TOG@Toil Guest

    Dream on.

    A couple of years ago I went to collect a Nold GS750 I'd won on eBay,
    and it had been so badly ringed it was a joke.

    My suspicions were alerted by the logbook first of all, which merely
    listed a five- or six-digit number for the frame, inctead of all the
    usual prefix stuff. Sure enough, you could see where the old number
    had been ground away and you could eve make out one or two of the
    original digits.

    The owner had had the bike for 24 years! Bought it off his best mate.
    And he absolutely *refused* to accept it was a ringer.

    So I left neutral FB, saying it was a ringer but the seller hadn't
    realised. And he complained to eBay, who removed the FB. And this was
    despite my presenting my credentials, as it were, and offering any
    independent inspection.
     
    TOG@Toil, Jun 29, 2010
    #52
  13. The Older Gentleman

    TOG@Toil Guest

    It ain't going to work like that. First, he really can't afford to
    lose the bike and he's also just re-insured it.

    Breaking: if we assume that the engine and chassis are verboten, then
    what's left? Bodywork, already slightly foxed, wheels, suspension,
    ancillaries, brakes, electrics. Perhaps a grand.

    He's got nowhere to store the parts - the bike lives in the open air
    as it is. And I've certainly got no room in my garage.

    And breaking it and flogging the parts is still completely illegal
    anyway, if you think about it. You might as well just sell the whole
    bike on anyway.

    It's easy for people to say: "Take it to Plod. Don't sell it on. Do
    the decent thing." when you can afford the luxury of saying that. If
    it was me, I'd be taking it straight back to the bod who flogged it in
    April last year and saying: "Right, sunshine, this is a ringer and I
    want my money back now. all of it. No arguments, no 'Well, I didn't
    know', no denials. Money back or you're looking down the barrels of my
    solicitor."

    But then I can get nasty like that, and nowadays I can afford to lose
    the bike if something goes wrong.

    He isn't and can't. And when you really are up a gum tree like this,
    and just can't afford to risk losing the bike, and given the near-
    certainty that nobody else will ever notice the ringing job (because
    it is that good) I strongly suspect that most of us, in the same
    situation, would, yes, sell the bike sharpish. He's some 20 years
    younger than I am, and (like I said) has little financial alternative.
     
    TOG@Toil, Jun 29, 2010
    #53
  14. The Older Gentleman

    Andy Bonwick Guest

    On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 07:31:40 -0700 (PDT), "TOG@Toil"

    snip>
    I'd try the clinical approach and ask for my money back, then I'd try
    the medieval approach of threatening violence but if both failed (or
    if the guy looked like he'd kill me) I'd sell it and **** the
    potential consequences.
     
    Andy Bonwick, Jun 29, 2010
    #54
  15. The Older Gentleman

    YTC#1 Guest

    As he has had it for 18 months, with no problems, how about keeping it ?

    Run it long enough and it will be worth while.
     
    YTC#1, Jun 29, 2010
    #55
  16. The Older Gentleman

    Hog Guest

    I've already posted the words of reason in this thread, today. Unless he is
    prepared to go back to the seller (1) then I think my suggestion is the only
    practical one.

    (1) who probably didn't know either
     
    Hog, Jun 29, 2010
    #56
  17. The Older Gentleman

    Pip Luscher Guest

    Oops. Deserved.

    I obviously meant VIN Number number.
     
    Pip Luscher, Jun 29, 2010
    #57
  18. The Older Gentleman

    ogden Guest

    Surely a bloke in his 40s can solve his own problems.
     
    ogden, Jun 29, 2010
    #58
  19. The Older Gentleman

    SIRPip Guest

    Not round here. VIN plate, that's fine.

    Even the cashiers are better these days - "Put your PIN in for me" is
    much more common than the awful "PIN number, please" of a couple of
    years ago.
     
    SIRPip, Jun 29, 2010
    #59
  20. The Older Gentleman

    SIRPip Guest

    I'll get switters on to you.
     
    SIRPip, Jun 29, 2010
    #60
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