He's bought a stolen bike

No, he'll have to return the money the next buyer paid him, if it ever gets
seized. It's the buyers responsibility to make sure the vehicle is
"straight", but if it turns out to be a ringer and plod can find the last
seller, it's him wot'll end up out of pocket, so our hypothetical pal will
get stiffed if he tells plod and they take it off him, or he'll get stiffed
if he sells it and plod seize it from the latest owner.

If he just rides it and gets it MOT'd and no-one notices it's a ringer, then
that's the cheapest (to him) option and the one with the least aggro in the
long term.

He should bin the bike when he's done with it though, and not try to sell it
on.

 

What are your views on people who sell frames that are totally fucked
but because they've got the correct documentation they're worth decent
money?

I've sold a frame that was so badly twisted that you couldn't get the
tank to sit straight and I cut the engine out of it but I needed the
money to buy another bike after smashing that one up so ignored the
fact that the reg number would be on a stolen bike within weeks.

I'm not the only poster here who's taken the cash and ignored reality
btw.

 

As have most people who've bought a bargain part on Ebay really....

 

Somewhat different to a forged VIN number, but I was once sold a dodgy
motor - the breaker took it out of the frame while I wandered round
town.

When I came to pick up the motor, there it was, sitting on the shop
floor with a bundled rag casually dumped on top of the gearbox case.

The chap was awfully helpful, insisting on putting the engine into my
car boot himself.

Only a day later when I went to fill out the docs did I see the fact
that the old number had been crudely filed off and a plain number (no
prefix code) stamped unevenly in its place.

So I sweated overnight and next day, in some trepidation, rang the
police.

The reply was along the lines of "well, it's not actually illegal to
change an engine number. Is there any sign of the original number? No?
Well, there's no way of identifying a previous owner without very
expensive forensics, you see. OK, I'll just consult a colleague....
no, we're not concerned but if you want, here's the phone number of
the <some sort of vehicle crime squad> ...they're not open on weekends
so you'd have to call them next week...>

I never rang the number. The engine got used; DVLA accepted the odd
engine number. Later, when its head gasket went, it was raided for
useful spares and the cases scrapped. A hybrid motor from the best
bits of both engines was put back in the bike, now with the original
number. And that was that.

 

I'm not so sure.

I meant 'they' as in the police rather than ebay - the police could get
the seller's details from ebay easily enough.

I suspect this will be seen as an easy job so the police would pursue it.

 

<slap>

 

You don't know that's what'll happen though - there are genuine reasons
for buying a reg doc[1]. And you're not potentially stealing money
directly from an innocent buyer.

It's not something I'd do though unless I knew for certain what it was
going to be used for.

[1] Building a special that you don't want on a Q plate, or getting a
track bike on the road etc. Not legal maybe, but not involving bike
theft.

 

Thats the best advice so far. In a situation like this, with not huge money
invested, tell him to keep it and ride it into the ground. That's the
lightest penalty all round for having bought a ringer.

I looked over a car 20odd years ago for a g/f and missed that the floor pan
area with the chassis number had been welded in. I knew the car had been
resprayed. It was all nicely done. Only realised when rust appeared where it
shouldn't. The seller was long gone from the pikey estate when we went back
to "discuss". It wasn't new and hadn't cost much so I kept plod out of the
picture and took responsibility, ran it into the ground commuting then had
it crushed 18 months later.

It lost me maybe £500 extra over the period. It might cost your friend that
or up to a grand written off over 2 or 3 years. I've trashed that much in a
single weekend being silly with drink overseas so WTF. It was obviously a
bike he liked, and wanted, so tell him to forget the numbers and just enjoy
it.

 

Why are there shit loads of ringed bikes in police pounds up and down the
country where the original owner can't be traced? Why aren't they with the
last person to "buy" them? Probably because without a proper history or
proof that "x" vehicle is even roadworthy (some fucking dogdy ringers out
there), Plod don't want them rolling around our streets threatening the
safety of the children.

Having seen a few reports about how interested Plod are [1] in getting eBay
to do anything, I'm not totally convinced.

If eBay gave them details and if the Plod bothered to pursue it.

[1] None.

 

Common parlance these days, so "sort of" acceptable.

 

Troo enough but...

NFW!

 

Dream on.

A couple of years ago I went to collect a Nold GS750 I'd won on eBay,
and it had been so badly ringed it was a joke.

My suspicions were alerted by the logbook first of all, which merely
listed a five- or six-digit number for the frame, inctead of all the
usual prefix stuff. Sure enough, you could see where the old number
had been ground away and you could eve make out one or two of the
original digits.

The owner had had the bike for 24 years! Bought it off his best mate.
And he absolutely *refused* to accept it was a ringer.

So I left neutral FB, saying it was a ringer but the seller hadn't
realised. And he complained to eBay, who removed the FB. And this was
despite my presenting my credentials, as it were, and offering any
independent inspection.

 

It ain't going to work like that. First, he really can't afford to
lose the bike and he's also just re-insured it.

Breaking: if we assume that the engine and chassis are verboten, then
what's left? Bodywork, already slightly foxed, wheels, suspension,
ancillaries, brakes, electrics. Perhaps a grand.

He's got nowhere to store the parts - the bike lives in the open air
as it is. And I've certainly got no room in my garage.

And breaking it and flogging the parts is still completely illegal
anyway, if you think about it. You might as well just sell the whole
bike on anyway.

It's easy for people to say: "Take it to Plod. Don't sell it on. Do
the decent thing." when you can afford the luxury of saying that. If
it was me, I'd be taking it straight back to the bod who flogged it in
April last year and saying: "Right, sunshine, this is a ringer and I
want my money back now. all of it. No arguments, no 'Well, I didn't
know', no denials. Money back or you're looking down the barrels of my
solicitor."

But then I can get nasty like that, and nowadays I can afford to lose
the bike if something goes wrong.

He isn't and can't. And when you really are up a gum tree like this,
and just can't afford to risk losing the bike, and given the near-
certainty that nobody else will ever notice the ringing job (because
it is that good) I strongly suspect that most of us, in the same
situation, would, yes, sell the bike sharpish. He's some 20 years
younger than I am, and (like I said) has little financial alternative.

 

On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 07:31:40 -0700 (PDT), "TOG@Toil"

snip>

I'd try the clinical approach and ask for my money back, then I'd try
the medieval approach of threatening violence but if both failed (or
if the guy looked like he'd kill me) I'd sell it and **** the
potential consequences.

 

As he has had it for 18 months, with no problems, how about keeping it ?

Run it long enough and it will be worth while.

 

I've already posted the words of reason in this thread, today. Unless he is
prepared to go back to the seller (1) then I think my suggestion is the only
practical one.

(1) who probably didn't know either

 

Oops. Deserved.

I obviously meant VIN Number number.

 

Surely a bloke in his 40s can solve his own problems.

 

Not round here. VIN plate, that's fine.

Even the cashiers are better these days - "Put your PIN in for me" is
much more common than the awful "PIN number, please" of a couple of
years ago.

 

I'll get switters on to you.