Hey All

So, in summary, you rear ended a vehicle and you would like all and sundry
to agree with you that it is not your fault.................

ck

 

So do I

I was asking the question of DoinitSideways.........................who may
have been better off DoinitStraight......


ck

 

I did all i could to avoid having an accident, unfortunately one happened.
It wasnt a stop sign when he is required to stop. Besides, its got nothing
to do with the other vehicle, he prolly has no ideai'm even going to court,
his vehicle was repaired and he was on his way by my insurance ($2500
premium and a $1000 excess which i paid)... I was being careful and paying
attention, but its not fair i'm expected to pay attention to more then one
thing at once. You cant look forward and backwards at the same time...

Had i been speeding or some other stupid act, then yes, i'd agree with the
charge, but i hadn't. I was also completely insured and fully cooperative
with the police on the night. If i was doing something stupid i would have
been fined on the spot. It's 8 months later for christs sake...

Josh

 

You're not listening. Read my lips: If you waltz in to court with
this story, they're going to eat you alive, and you'll probably
end up with a suspension *and* a big fuckin' fine. Wake the hell
up already!


You should...

1) Get a solicitor, and/or

2) Plead guilty, be very apologetic, learned my lesson Your Worship,
won't happen again. If the vibe is good and you're feeling ballsy,
"I respectfully submit that this is a matter that could be
dealt with by way of a fine Your Worship" - though coming from
a non-lawyer, that could well backfire. When it comes to the
"anything to say before sentencing" type bit, a brief bio: I'm
xx years old, employed full time as a blah-blah, earn $xxx per
year after tax, have been riding for xx years, competition and
street, top in my class at school last week. I use my motorcycle
to travel to/from work, etc (modify as appropriatate, don't make
stuff up, don't waffle on). If you *must* tell the magistrate about
the incident, ask "May I tell Your Worship the details of the
incident?"... it may not be allowed/appropriate, I don't remember.


If you go bouncing in there tomorrow with the story you've told us
*and* plead not guilty, the Magistrate is going to (1) find you
guilty anyway, and (2) be pissed off at you for wasting his time.
"Lots fo tickets" follow from such approaches, your wallet and your
arse are both gonna be sore.


Its probably too late to get a solicitor now. Tomorrow, follow
IK's advice: apologise to the magistrate for not being properly
prepared, respectfully request a continuance so that you may
properly brief a solicitor. Have a plan 'B' in case the Magistrate
is in a bad mood and decides to deal with the matter there and
then with no continuance. If s/he wants to know why you're not
prepared, be honest: You were planning to defend yourself, and
some friends read some sense into you at the eleventh hour. If
you still can't get a continuance, a good plan 'B' might be my
(2) above. If you do get a continuance, the Magistrate might well
ask you *when* you want it. Be ready, suggest a date 4-6 weeks
from now. Note that they usually only hear 'new' cases one or
two days a week, so be flexible on days, suggest the same day
as you're appearing now (ie: Friday, so maybe June 25th?), but
be prepared to take an alternative.

If you do get the continuance, go and see a solicitor on
Monday, don't leave it to Thursday 24th!


Note also, if its a hearings day, the Magistrate or Clerk of
Court might ask something to the effect of "any guilty pleas
or continuances" at the beginning of the day. If you see the
Clerk of Court buzzing in and out (or some other official), grab
their attention and let them know up-front what you want to do
(re plea or continuance) and if you're lucky, you might get up
first thing in the morning and not have to wait around all day
until your name is called. As a pre-requisite for this, you're
gonna have to be there early, and you're going to have to be
in the courtroom, not waiting outside with all the other
punters waiting for your name to be called. If you're going to
plead not-guilty, you'll have to wait your turn. Remember to
stop at the door and bow to the Magistrate (if the court is
in session) on the way in and *out* of the courtroom. Watch what
the cops and the staff do, and copy them.



Remember always: The Magistrate owns that courtroom, and the
only law in there is his/her law insofar as respect and common
decency and who-says-what-goes goes. Be absolutely respectful at
all times: please, thank-you, if it pleases Your Worship, three
bags full Your Worship. Don't *ever* argue, don't be a wanker,
don't call the Magistrate a 'poofter' (I've seen it happen.
Painful for the defendant!). Wear a suit. Do your hair tidily.
If you haven't got a suit, find your Sunday best and wear that.
If you have untidy hair, get a hair cut! If you're planning to
ride your bike to court, re-think, leave the bike at home, take
a bus or a cab - leathers will be a bad look. They deal with so
many wankers who have no clue about procedure or respect every
day that when someone shows up who *does* know how to present
and behave, its like a breath of fresh air. A well behaved, well
presented person will get "less fo tickets".



Good luck, I hope this helps,


GB, I Am Not A Lawyer (I dropped out of law school in second
year)

 

The obvious point is that you weren't doing everyingthing you could do
to avoid an accident, otherwise it wouldn't have happened.

How would you feel if it was the other way around and a four wheel
drive went over the top of you because he/she/it was expecting you to
accelerate into the traffic but for what ever reason you didn't?

Bottom line, afaik, undue care and attention is a standard charge for
rear ending someone. I have a neice who rear ended someone else and
she, similarly, did not want to acknowledge that it was her fault (in
her case she had a habit of driving too close) and was determined to
blame the driver for stopping too suddenly. Basically it's your
responsibility to watch what is in front of you. It's the only
circumstance (again afaik) where the driver in front will bear no
legal responsibility whatsoever.

As some other posters recommended, go and get some legal advice if you
can afford it otherwise go into Court cap in hand and hope for a light
penalty. Trying to claim that it was the fault of the driver in front
is going to do you sfa and more lilkely piss the magistrate off.

Essentially, watch for changing traffic conditions and assume nothing.

cheers, Bill

 

Bloody brilliant, this will help any of us unlucky (or stupid) enough to
appear in court. You should write a book.

And to the OP, Mr. Sideways, you may find some more clues here:
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~verysoft/speeding/

"Yes, Yer Worship, no, Yer Worship, thank you, Yer Worship". Nudge, nudge,
wink, wink...

Gary

--

"As the Bush White House desperately maneuvers in Iraq to prevent the new
government from being run according to the dictates of religious
fundamentalists, it desperately maneuvers here to pander to religious
fundamentalists who want to dictate how the government should be run."

Maureen Dowd, the New York Times

 

*BOGGLE!*

Errrmmm, Josh, can you do me a favour? Head down to your local police
station and hand them your licence, telling them you're too incompetent
to drive. Thanks.

If you can't pay attention to more than one thing at a time, you
probably shouldn't be using the internet either... Be a good boy and
send your computer back to the shop too, eh?

big

 

I always wondered at this. Seems to me it's called an accident for a
reason, I guess this really means the saying "shit happens" is in fact
not true. Seems the person in the vehicle in front was not paying
attention either, or they would have merged into traffic before being
rear ended.

Something I always assumed but appears to not be true, a mate on the way
to my place last year (in his car), changed into the right lane to turn
the corner to my place, braked to go round the corner and was rear
ended. He was fined (undue care and attention or something, apparently
he braked to hard, whatever that menas), as well as taken to small
claims court and had to pay 1/2 her costs... He was pissed as he was
confident it was all "her fault" as she hit him up the arse i.e followed
to closely. Knowing how he drives, my guess it was mostly his fault and
she was thinking about rooting the b/f and not paying attention.

That aside, that OP was in the wrong IMO, just a hard lesson to learn
that people do stupid things like stop in merge lanes. Always assume
cock heads everywhere because there are and they don't know how to
drive... myself included. This is why I now stay off the pavement these
days, as much as possible, which is luckily pretty easy in Townsville
and the added bonus of some excellent riding. Riding from NSW to
Townsville, last Sept, I saw 4 Cars and no cops until I got to the turn
off from the Burdekin Dam @ Mingela.

--
Trevor S


"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

 

In aus.motorcycles on Thu, 19 May 2005 20:59:17 +1000

Never mind. If he can't walk and chew gum at the same time, he can
become President of the United States!

Zebee
-

 

In aus.motorcycles on 19 May 2005 11:02:36 GMT

The reason is usually sloppiness.

And a desire to avoid blame until the coroner has had their say.

Very few road crashes are accidents. the vast majority are a
combination of carelessness and selfishness.

Zebee

 

Its obvious A is the correct answer

 

Come on, he's obviously way too smart for that role.

JL

 

I was wondering when harsh week was going to kick in, GB was being all
nice and helpful and nobody had actually fisted him yet

JL
(shoulda known it'd be the keeper of the Harsh Week timer)

 

Shit does not just happen. It's caused by arseholes

Smiley
Aussie Discs
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~smiley_b1/

 

Thanks GB,

Very much helpfull.

Regards,
Josh

 

Yes yes, I know, I'm sorry, it won't happen again

<troll> So, how many days has harsh week been running now
anyway?</troll>

GB

 

GB, this is what i have come up with thus far. Following advice from
numerous people, i am going to plead guilty wth reason?

___________________________________________
Good afternoon your worship. I am 21 years old and have been riding
motorcycles for 6 years, both competition and street. I work two jobs and
also attend university, studying a degree in Civil Engineering. My first job
is with Westfield Shopping Centres as a site cadet, my work hours begin
around 6:30am. Of a weekend I work in hospitality for Melba's On The Park,
and my start and finish times can be anywhere between 7pm and 6am. All three
of which I use my motorcycle to travel to, from and in between.



May I tell your worship the details leading up to the incident?



One week before the incident I passed my drivers licence exam for a car. I
passed this exam with flying colours and was commended by my instructor and
my testing officer.

On the night of the incident, it had been raining, so as a motorcyclist I
was very wary of steel covers, white road markings etc. As I approached the
corner I was approximately 50 metres behind the 4WD in front. Entering the
merging lane I was forced to weave my way between two white strips of a
pedestrian crossing. I then proceeded to check over my shoulder for oncoming
traffic, and distinctly remember noting that the lights had just turned
green allowing traffic to turn onto Gold Coast Highway. As I've turned back
to look straight ahead, accelerate and merge, I was shocked to notice the
4WD was nearly at a stand still near the end of the merging lane,
unfortunately, I was unable to stop my vehicle in time.



Furthermore, I would like to add that I had only owned the motorcycle for 4
days. In these 4 days I paid $2500 for a comprehensive insurance premium,
$1000 in excess for this accident and have since had numerous medical
problems arising from the accident.



I would like to thank you for your time your woship.

___________________________________________



Any ammendments etc.???



I have a suit and tie, polished black shoes and will even shower to not
smell bad. I have also organised a friend to take me to and from court so
there will be no motorcycle going.



Cheers,

Josh

 

No way, Josh is asking for advice.

Theo

 

I'm not sure about the "guilty with reason" bit. Technically,
you're guilty or you're not. I dunno how that works.

The speech sounds reasonable, I guess. You're gonna have to spell
out what "competition and street" means. "I have been racing motorcycles
and go-carts as a member of an organised club..." (community minded)

Perhaps expand on the "7pm to 6am" part to make it clear that the
varied start/finish times see you travelling at times when public
transport may not be available, difficult to use public transport,
whatever.

If you get a chance beforehand, ask someone if the correct form
of address is "Your Worship" or "Your Honour". Traditionally,
Magistrates have been "Your Worship", but recently there have been
moves afoot in NSW to change that to "Your Honour". Regardless of
what is technically correct, I think that using 'worship' is a safer
bet, it indicates clue and a lack of american television influence!

'flying colours'? "Best in my class", "the test allows for some
errors, but I made none", be a little more literal, less slang.
These people sit in courtrooms or at home drinking tea their whole
lives - they know nothing about real-life, or slang! (I exagerrate,
but it is a somewhat formal environment)

Cars just drive over white strips. Why did you need to weave? "I know
that the white painted lines on roads can be very slippery when they
are wet, so I took particular care to avoid them"

Good. If this is a guilty plea, then be careful not to try to word
blame on to others. The Magistrate will look at your story and
read into it how the other punter contributed. What you've written
sounds fine, be careful not to emotionalise it on the day to sound
like you're attributing any blame to the other guy.

Costs re medical problems? Bring receipts if you have them in case
the Magistrate wants to see them, have a round (total) figure in your
head to append to this bit of your speech.


"I understand that suspension is an option available to you, Your
Worship. The nature of my work means that I am required to travel at
odd times when public transport is often not available. I accept
responsibility for the offence and I apologise to the court. Given
the circumstances I respectfully submit that this is a matter that
may be dealt with by way of a fine."


(Note that the act provides for two years of imprisonment. Depending
on which section you're getting done under, it can also be worth up
to 40 penalty points (x penalty points x $yy == $fine). Penalty points
also count on your license in the usual way (I think, not sure if they're
the same 'points' as you get for driving offences, but certainly one
example of case law I read (can't remember which state), a guy got
9 points and lost his license on the spot.

Note well that the high-end penalties are for the punters that do
a million dollars worth of property damage and take out a couple of
small children at the same time. Your offence *seems* to be relatively
low-end, so you shouldn't be shitting yourself about getting hit too
hard, certainly jail time is very very highly unlikely (non-
committal lawyer-speak for not gonna happen))

Oooh, arse kissing, I like that! Seriously though, the whole die
deference, respect thing is good.

Good. You'll be sharing a waiting room with a bunch of unshaven smelly
wankers in singlets and trakky dacks who just want to get it over with
so they can go out and trade some more dope and televisions. If you
look like you made an effort and you're showing some respect, you're
ahead already.


Good luck,

GB, usual disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer. I failed miserably at law school
(as evidenced by most of my 'advice'). You'd be mad to take my
advice. I'm not qualified to tell you any of this stuff. This isn't
advice.

 

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman", no, wait, wrong
president "We're doing all we can", no, that was Nancy. Uhm...

I know...


NUCULAR!


http://tinyurl.com/cf8jz
http://tinyurl.com/54xw8

GB, political animal.