How would you do it? How should I have done it?

Now that was interesting.

On the way to work this morning, I came across an accident. Probably a
few seconds after it had happened. There was a Peugeot 20x upside down
in the middle lane of the road. Quick as a flash, I pulled over, as I
couldn't see anyone next to the car and rushed over to the car. I
heard the woman inside muttering or moaning, so I knew she was
concious. As it happens, the drivers door was unlocked, so I yanked it
open to get a better view. After checking to see she was indeed okay
(for relevant values of okay) and hadn't broken anything, I got
another person to get over to the other side and release the seatbelt.
With another biker on my side, we got the woman out and carried
(supported) her to the side of the road.

My reasoning behind this, was that she was lucid, the car was upside
down in the middle lane and smoke was coming out from the engine
(probably some fluid other than petrol). At the time, I saw the smoke
and just reacted. I didn't know at the time, that the car was a
diesel.

I started to ask her a few questions about how she was, etc, when SWK
first aid better than I came over and took control (I was fine with
this). She seemed fine overall, with a bruise from the seatbelt and
marks underneath her where she'd probably been hit with the airbag.
She even knew what had happened until the point of her cage going
upside down (down to the detail where she thought she'd hit a black
407).

My Q. Was my act of heroism a bit stupid and should have I left her
hanging upside down in the car? My immediate thought was that I should
get her out of any further danger. I've been told since, that I should
have left her upside down and waited for the fire brigrade to do the
job.

<fx: sigh> I really need to sort out a first aid course.

 

You meant well. But the general rule is if there is no immediate danger
either from the situation or injuries leave them alone. Do a first aid
course, they are well worth it.

Of course, you wouldn't know the smoke wasn't fire would you?

Nige

 

We did this last year:

http://sites.croix-rouge.fr/recherche_formation.php3 (sorry, I can't
find an English-language version for you).

Well worth it.

D.

 

The FIRST thing before moving a casualty is to check for possible spinal
injuries. Moving these is a bad idea unless the victim is about to die
in a fire.

 

Wrong. The first thing to do is assess your own safety, then the
safety of the victim. These things you do before even moving on to the
'ABC' - Airways, Breathing, Circulation.

In this case Cab's actions were based on his feeling that the car
might catch fire, and while of course care should be taken to move the
victim as gently as possible I'd be fully support his actions, even if
it had lead to further injury.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com)
\`\ | /`/
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
`\|/`
`

 

More idle curiosity, but what happened to the other car?
Also, don't modern cars seem to end up upside down a lot more than old
cars used to? Reduced chassis weight compared to shell?

 

As I said in reply to crn, you'd be fully justified in moving her if
you believed the vehicle might catch fire. The fact that it didn't,
or indeed whether you were mistaken in the belief that it _might_, is
neither here nor there.

So I applaud you for doing what you thought was the right thing,
rather than just standing around, as a surprisingly large number of
people would have done.

So should everyone, IMO.

But AAMOI you're fully supported by the French 'Good Samaritan' law,
which actually requires that you do whatever you can to help an
accident victim. This is an important consideration for us in the Ski
Club, as it makes it virtually impossible to be sued (in France) if
your efforts turn out to have been wrongly directed or even harmful.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com)
\`\ | /`/
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
`\|/`
`

 

Funnily enough, one of the helpers on scene went to her car and
brought out her handbag before I had chance to get in there. For some
bizarre reason initially I thought he was going to lift her purse.
I did turn the key of the engine but I don't think it was running.

I'd like to think so. I don't think I did anything wrong but upon
reflection I could/should have left her in the car.

Well, she was very lucky. There was a mountain climber on scene and
he'd obviously been trained in First Aid (very good he was) with a
first aid kit (wasn't needed though). Then an off duty fireman turned
up less than a minute later.

Within 10 mins, the Police turned up (they normally lurk around the
area catching morning speeders). A minute or so after this, an off
duty doctor (who works in Emergency) stopped to help out.

The Police told me, that as I wasn't a witness, I could leave. Just
after I left (probably about 15 - 20 mins after it all started) I saw
the Fire Brigade on the other side of the road shooting up. They'd
have been there with a couple of minutes.

It was all very quick and I was quite impressed. I think the driver
was very lucky though to have all these trained personnel on site so
quickly.

Funnily enough, no one brought out their triangles nor wore their hi-
vi vests. I suppose it happened rather quickly.

 

Given the choice, I'd rather be alive-but-paralysed than slightly crispy
and very dead.

 

Personally I think you did right. You didn't freeze up and you tried
to help to the best you could.

It's more than a lot of people would do.

 

Right or wrong, I'd have done the same.

Me too.

 

We have a similar thing here. The law of "socorro" or somesuch. The
penalty for not helping out is more than for causing the accident.

--

Paul.
CBR1100XX SuperBlackbird (Buen mueble de patio)
And a pushbike of some sort.
BOTAFOT #4
BOTAFOF #30
MRO #24
OMF #15
UKRMMA #30

Ovejas y buitres:
http://obscuredomainname.org

 

Beloved and myself came upon one of those plastic
three-wheelers on its side. Old driver and his old wife were
uninjured but uncomfortable, she was getting throttled by
the safety belt and he (much smaller than she)was getting
crushed by her.

Switched the engine off and cut the safety-belt. We had to
hold her weight off her husband but not for long. The
services were there in no time.

Did think about restoring the car onto its wheels, they are
so light, and it would have made the occupants more
comfortable. We were told that it would be better not to.

--
Jeweller
R100RT
Formerly: James Captain, A10, C15, B25, Dnepr M16 solo,
R80/7, R100RT (green!)
www.davidhowardjeweller.co.uk

 

Difficult decision to make in an instant. We all know the "Should do
this/shouldn't do that" brigade will probably not be happy with your
actions, but me? I'd rather someone drag me/release me from a smoking car
than wait (and pray) the emergency services arrive before anything REALLY
bad happened.

I'd be calling you "Brother" for the rest of my life if I were the woman.

Shouldn't we all?


--
Beav

VN 750
Zed 1000
OMF# 19

 

Just booked our 3-yearly one with BASP, running this time in Zermatt,
which makes it a bit easier than having to travel to the UK.
http://www.basp.org.uk/
Recommended.
--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com)
\`\ | /`/
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
`\|/`
`

 

Cars don't have "chassis" anymore, they're mostly monocoque so the shell IS
the chassis. I don't know if more end up on their roof's but me and the
missus came across a Range Rover that'd had just flipped on the M61 last
year. No signs of skid marks (on the road) and no "other car debris) , but a
child was thrown out and killed while the mother and her adult passenger
were belted in and unhurt.

I've still not worked out how it ended up on its roof on a straight and
relatively traffic free stretch of road. Nothing came of the local news
either, just a small article in the local rag which told us bugger all.


--
Beav

VN 750
Zed 1000
OMF# 19

 

Isn't that an episode of Star Trek?

And, back OT, unless I misread cab's post he doesn't mention whether
this woman was worth saving. An act like that has to be good for a BJ
at least, you'd have thought.

 

Surprisingly enough, I didn't see any damage to the 407. Mind you, I
only looked from behind and could only see the rear and passenger
side. Whether there was something to the front or drivers side, I
didn't pay attention.

I was very surprised that the 20x was upside down though. I couldn't
see how it had flipped. I couldn't see any marks on the concrete
central reservation.

 

Ah, that's interesting to know. One of my colleagues told me that if I
had caused further injury, I could have been held responsible.

 

Heheheh. She wasn't my type, hence I didn't think about asking if she
TIUTA.