I need another bike like I need a hole in the head...

Discussion in 'Classic Motorbikes' started by Timo Geusch, Feb 14, 2011.

  1. Timo Geusch

    Timo Geusch Guest

    Timo Geusch, Feb 14, 2011
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  2. Timo Geusch

    Mark Olson Guest

    You're a glutton for punishment and like battling the DMV?

    On Feb-09-11 at 11:44:19 PST, seller added the following information:
    Title was lost by original owner..Can be obtained and will be if required

    I really, really wouldn't, even if it had a title.
    Mark Olson, Feb 14, 2011
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  3. Timo Geusch

    Timo Geusch Guest

    Aaargh. Not another one with a lost title.

    Reminds me of the plonker 2 hours away who had a Wrangler Sahara for
    sale who called us while we were driving down there to tell us that the
    title had been stolen a couple of years ago and he hadn't got around to
    getting a replacement yet.

    Oddly enough I wasn't too keen on buying it.

    Which reminds me, I really need to get my arse in gear and get titles
    for the Morinis and the BMW.
    Timo Geusch, Feb 14, 2011
  4. Timo Geusch

    Mark Olson Guest

    Practically de rigueur for Craigslist.
    What really matters is having plates- when it comes time to sell it there's
    always a muppet handy who's willing to buy a bike without a title...
    Mark Olson, Feb 14, 2011
  5. Timo Geusch

    SteveH Guest

    SteveH, Feb 14, 2011
  6. Why is this such a hassle in the US? Here, lost documents are an
    irritation, but they can be relatively easily and cheaply repalced.
    The Older Gentleman, Feb 14, 2011
  7. Timo Geusch

    Salad Dodger Guest

    Salad Dodger, Feb 14, 2011
  8. Timo Geusch

    Salad Dodger Guest

    PS: The colour is "rawhide". :)
    Salad Dodger, Feb 14, 2011
  9. Timo Geusch

    Mark Olson Guest

    Each individual state has its own policies and procedures for getting a
    new title certificate issued. In my state, if you are the registered
    owner, replacing a lost title is easy, you fill out a form and they
    mail it to the address of record. But if you buy a bike without one,
    getting the seller to cooperate after the fact can be nearly impossible
    after he's got the money, so it becomes more difficult. Demanding that
    the seller produce a title to a relatively cheap SOB as a condition of
    sale doesn't have as much leverage as you might think, since many buyers
    only want the bike for parts, or are scofflaws to whom such niceties as
    registration and insurance are as familiar as quantum physics.

    In fact, states vary so much on their title requirements that
    businesses have sprung up based on getting title to a bike in one state,
    then transferring it to the buyer's state of residence.

    There can also be considerable leeway and uncertainty in the process
    when you are basically at the mercy of the clerk who you happen to draw,
    some are willing to smooth things over and others are sticklers and make
    the process as difficult as possible. Chasing down previous owners for
    signatures can be hugely frustrating since they usually have no stake
    in resolving any problems, they've got their money and aren't liable
    anymore for whatever happens with the vehicle.

    Another wrinkle revolves around engine numbers and my state's desire to
    discourage trafficking in stolen bike parts. Suffice it to say that all
    this does is cause untold hassle for legitimate buyers who unwittingly
    buy a bike with a replaced lump, even when it is legitimately obtained,
    unless there is "acceptable" documentation of the provenance of the
    engine provided when transferring the title. Even worse in this case
    is that the transferring clerk may not be able to tell if the engine
    number provided matches the original (it's not printed on the title
    cert, but is recorded at the DMV) at the time of the transfer, so the
    buyer may walk away thinking all is well, while the seller pockets the
    cash. Weeks pass, then the application for transfer is rejected by
    letter and the hunt for the missing seller begins. The relief in the
    voice of the guy who bought my ZG1000 lump when finding out I would
    document the sale was palpable- he only discovered this a year after
    fitting the engine, when he was selling it and his buyer's application
    for title was rejected.

    Generally, it's an avoidable hassle, and unless the particular bike is
    very rare and desirable, it's just not worth the effort when you can
    buy one with a good title. In my opinion, most of the bikes without
    titles are usually neglected crap anyway, which isn't surprising given
    the lack of care and attention their owners gave to the documents.

    But rather than taking my word for it, the OP is in a position to answer
    the question for at least one state, and I look forward to hearing from
    him about the experience.
    Mark Olson, Feb 14, 2011
  10. Made my day, that has.

    Rollin', rollin', rollin'...

    Keep that old SOB rollin',

    The Older Gentleman, Feb 14, 2011
  11. <snip>

    Thanks for that.

    Good God. Utterly insane.

    Here, if you ask for a registration document for a bike you acquired
    without aforesaid document, they will send a letter to the last recorded
    owner, and if there's silence, and assuming the relevant engine and
    chassis numbers do not show up as stolen, the papers are yours.

    If it's a SOB (as many are), you can simply register on a new "age
    related" plate - I've done that a couple of times, re-registering early
    1970s bikes for which records (especially computer records) no longer
    exist. I think the government works on the assumption that nobody is
    going to be silly enough to base a criminal career on making money out
    of sub-£300 heaps of rust.

    Backing this up, of course, is a nationwide record of stolen chassis and
    engine numbers, which helps enormously, although it does not solve the
    issue of 'ringing; (changing vehicle identities). But then, neither does
    the US system.
    The Older Gentleman, Feb 14, 2011
  12. Timo Geusch

    Timo Geusch Guest

    If you're the person the bike or car is titled to, it's generally not
    that big a deal, for example, in California (where said Jeep Wrangler
    resided). You probably have to go down to the local DMV office (the
    equivalent of the DVLA, only on a state basis) and you might have to get
    the chassis number inspected, but it's not that hard. It's supposedly
    also not very hard if the vehicle stays in CA, but take it out of the
    state like I would have to and there's a lot of fun to be had...

    Here in Nevada it's not that hard to ensure that you have a title for a
    vehicle you buy simply because you have to go to the DMV to get plates
    for it anyway (the PO keeps the plates and driving around without plates
    gets you introduced to people in uniform quickly if you don't have a
    permit taped to the windscreen, and you need a title for that, too), but
    in CA and some other states you can just jump in a car that you bought
    and drive off as the plates stay on the car...

    And that's before we get into fun parts like states that don't issue
    titles for vehicles that are over 25 years old and similar rubbish.

    Oh, and did I mention that the equivalent of an HPI isn't always that
    reliable either?
    Timo Geusch, Feb 15, 2011
  13. Describes the contents of your garage nicely, does that :)

    Oh, and bollocks. Our vineyard purchase has fallen through - no water
    rights. That's why it was attractively priced...
    The Older Gentleman, Feb 15, 2011
  14. Timo Geusch

    Rusty Hinge Guest

    Commis - but have you thought of a borehole? Not sure how you go about
    doing it where(ever) your vinyard is but it isn't nearly so expensive to
    have the actual thing installed as you might think.
    Rusty Hinge, Feb 15, 2011
  15. Wotcha
    Not forgetting the Super Rat.

    Hmm - I rather like the sound of the BSA Bullfrog ;-)
    ^..^ Lone Wolf, Feb 15, 2011
  16. Timo Geusch

    Timo Geusch Guest

    I've seen at least one Road Toad for sale around here a few months
    Timo Geusch, Feb 15, 2011
  17. Timo Geusch

    Timo Geusch Guest

    Oi! I resemble that remark. At least 50% of the contents of the garage
    is running.
    Now that blows, sorry to hear that.
    Timo Geusch, Feb 15, 2011
  18. Timo Geusch

    Mark Olson Guest

    Mark Olson, Feb 15, 2011
  19. Timo Geusch

    Hog Guest

    "the fine print"

    What about the original plan and the wooden Chateau?
    Hog, Feb 15, 2011
  20. Um, Chile has very complicated legislation regarding wells and
    boreholes, and you can't just sink one where you feel like it.

    There's whole textbooks about 'legal' and 'illegal' wells and the rights
    thereof, apparently.
    The Older Gentleman, Feb 15, 2011
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