InterRail (yes, it's OT)

Works for me

 

It's also an unanswerable question (largely anyway)..

My gut feeling is "no" but I have no way of proving it as there are too
many variables. No holocaust means no Nazi party (or no Nazi party as
in our timeline anyway) which means no WW2 (or at least as we know it)
which means a very different Europe - one not ravaged by war.

Phil.

 

Indeed it did - google for Balfour Declaration as an example.

I think the concept did that for itself..

Phil.

 

Got to say that I haven't watched it after Episode One. It's really
disappointing and formulaic, IMHO, and nowhere near as good as his
previous stuff nor, indeed, Paul Merton's recent China travelogue.

I am aware that this viewpoint maybe considered treasonable.

 

Indeed not. But condemning them and then working (directly or
indirectly) for the organisation[1] doing much the same things as
Israel shows a little inconsistency wouldn't you say?

Indeed. And just for the record I don't accuse him of anti-semitism..

Phil.

 

Someone did kindly page you about it, but you'd already left the building.

That said, he positively glossed over Slovenia, went straight to Croatia,
did a bit about Split, then onto Hvar before going to Bosnia. Ended the
program in Dubrovnik I think.

Twas Q.I.

 

I can't 'do' that - work laptop, locked, unauthorised software...

That'd be more like it
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Will do. Ta muchly.

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TOG@toil,, <>
wrote in

Not at all. I watched the first one where he was in the Julian Alps &
Croatia. It was largely rubbish but I could at least say to the others
viewing that, "been there, it was fab" etc.

I started to watch the second but got distracted. When I returned to the TV
the other viewer had flipped channels.

As you say, it is formulaic. There is nothing about the programme that
gives a sense of adventure. The countries he goes to are accessible via
Easyjet or Ryanair flights. Michael Palin has morphed into a camp version
of Judith Chalmers. Expedia, Ebookers et al must be rubbing their hands
with glee.

 

@news.individual.net:

I enjoyed watching Whicker but viewed now it might seem odd. Many of the
places he went to that were exotic have become FirstChoice destinations.
Much of the stuff he saw will have been replaced by McTouristTat Inc.

The thing about the current Palin series is that the countries that he is
visiting are not exotic. To me, the Slovenians are desperate to be
Österreichisch and the Croatians wish to be Italiano. From my limited
experience, they don't want tourists going over there to gawp at the scenes
of relatively recent violence.

 

Remember when he went blathering on about how bombing the railway
lines to Auschwitz would have ended the war early? Classic. Of course,
a real Red Sea Pedestrian would be rather better informed.

 

I said no such thing. When you have to resort to _inventing_ phrases and
putting them in your 'opponent's' mouth, it tells us rather a lot.

D.

 

Right, now I have some spare time to answer this load of uninformed, petty
_non sequitur_ ...

No, this is about _your_ attempts to 'cover up' what I believe was a
genuine 'mis-type'. You probably thought that France was shipping people
off to the gas chambers before 1940, hence your 'unoccupied France'.
I suspect that a quick google after that, sort of confirmed that your
knowledge of that period is a mile wide and an inch thick, but by then it
was too late: I'd already followed up.

So now you twist it to mean, 'the part of France that was governed by
Vichy'.

You're talking bollocks. I know it, you know it, and everyone on UKRM
(whilst being nowhere near pointing it out to you) knows it. 'Unoccupied
France' was 'governed' by Vichy insofar as Iraq is 'governed' by the
Iraqis. i.e. not at all.

Not that any of this matters. You've thrown insults, you've invented
things that I never said or wrote, and you've lost the plot completely by
accusing me of being a Holocaust revisionist (an accusation that is
completely loony of course, but also actionable here in France).

I've won the argument. On WWII, I make that roughly six-nil. You _do_
plan to like, read a book on the War, and hopefully one day be able to win
one, don't you ?

D.

 

Is this little exchange between you and TOG classed as 'homoeroticism', or
just plain sucking up ?

D.

 

Indeed, though I think he said something like it could have ended the
Holicaust and maybe the war.. I just add that as otherwise no doubt
he'll start twisting that as well. The French were outnumbered in
1940, etc etc etc. I'm not sure if his lack of any real
understanding of world and even French history is just deliberate
trolling or if it's a symptom of his mental illness. Then again,
GAF?

 

It's impossible to know if it would have. TOG's desperation in inventing
quotations, is showing.

Translation: you have not killfiled me.

You're expending a not inconsiderable amount of energy on something about
which you claim, 'GAF'.

Heh ... this is fucking excellent fun.

D.

 

<troll food>

For those interested parties: World At War, tonight 22:00.

UKTV History - #12 on Freeview.

Episode 3: "France falls" - detailing the Third Republic's marathon
six week struggle against fascism.
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'^' RBR Clues: 69 Pts:0960 Miles:3899

 

....before being massively underwhelmed.

Bad SD.

 

The Vichy unoccupied zone had that status until November 1942.

Two quotes from the BBC article which you presumably have not read:

"More than 40,000 refugee Jews were held in concentration camps under
French control, and 3,000 died of poor treatment during the winters of
1940 and 1941. The writer Arthur Koestler, who was held at Le Vernet
near the Spanish frontier, said conditions were worse than in the
notorious German camp, Dachau."

Not shipped off though admittedly.

"Many historians consider that an even worse crime was committed in
Vichy-controlled southern France, where the Germans had no say. In
August 1942, gendarmes were sent to hunt down foreign refugees. Families
were seized in their houses or captured after manhunts across the
countryside. About 11,000 Jews were transported to Drancy in the Paris
suburbs, the main transit centre for Auschwitz."

Not direct to Germany then, but prior to November 1942.

A tempting analogy, but Iraq is more akin to Quisling Norway IMO.

Were German troops patrolling the streets of Vichy France prior to
November 1942? If so, why did 'Operation Lila' happen?

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No, I didn't, They didn't even exist then.

"Unoccupied Vichy France" = that part of France, govern by Vicvhy,
that was not occupied by Germany. It's a remarkably simple concept to
understand, and nobody else has trouble with it.

So sue me.

Nobody else seems to think so.