I've started to get a thing about...

Honda CB750's, the old ones where the petrol tank looked separate from the
side panels.
Also cheap, old trials bikes for long distance trials.

Right, give me all i need to know about both please.
I've never looked at classic bikes in the past but they've started to turn
my eye.

 

SOHC 750 Fours have a *very* common habit of turning into DOHC 375 twins.
(where one part of the cam decides to part company with the other at one of
the bearing journals. The cams and carriers are getting very scarce now.
Many have had a needle roller conversion and special cam made up to suit.
They are not at all tolerant of long oil change intervals or crap oil.
In my late teens, I had 2 K2s, a K6 and an F2. All but the F2 turned into a
right bag of bollocks because I didn't change the oil often enough or used
cheap shit. Also, I didn't use proper reassembly techniques and gasket
sealants (orange worms anyone?).
Original cycle parts and silencers for the Ks are now outrageously
expensive.
If you find a nice one, expect to pay top dollar if it is in any way
original (and get TOG to check it out!).
Or just get a late '70s Kwak1000. Same type of beast but *much* better
engine.
My tuppence worth.
JB

 

Trials bikes I wot not of.

Honda CB750s I wot of. I've owned a couple. They're basically shite -
nice to ride up to 70mph, and then the deficiencies of handing and
(especially) braking come to the fore.

They look nice, but they're incredibly hard work to ride for any decent
speed (and they'll do 115 or so) for any time. It's not just the
handling and braking - the throttle is heavy, the weight is impossible
to ignore, and the windblast dreadful.

The four-pipers look nicest but are dynamically the worst. The F series
- four into one pipes, slab-sided tanks - are faster, but only the F2
has brakes that are anywhere up to modern roads.

The F2 is the nicest to ride, no question:- most power, best brakes,
handling that's close to predictable. Happily it's also way cheaper than
the four-pipers.

My general advice is don't. If you want a Honda Four, the 550 is the
best compromise between size and performance.

 

In uk.rec.motorcycles.classic, Linger belched forth and ejected the
following:

You're getting old.

 

The Older Gentleman said...

I smashed my mate's old F2 good and proper into a roundabout when I/it
ran out of brakes, the day before he was due to go to Pahnd Island.
Between me and a load of mates we managed to rebuild it and he got to
his ferry on time...just.

 

Early CB750's are worth quite a lot of money in good condition, and
even if you could find one needing restoration, this would probably
work out more expensive than buying an up and running bike. If you are
looking for an older bike to use, then you would find something like a
Z650 or GS750 a lot nicer to ride, and less money to buy.

In terms of "cheap" old trials bike, you are going to have a lot of
difficulty finding something thats any good for long distance trials,
unless you opt for something Spanish or can find something like a TY250
Yam t/s, thats not totally mullahed. The ideal bike for this sort of
thing would be a TLR200 Honda, but these are making £1k+ at the
moment, and you would be lucky to find a good bike cheaper. Best option
would be to get hold of a decent 2 stroke trail bike, and modify it to
suit long distance trials use better.

k

 

Do you mean the 'classic' LDTs like the Edinburgh & Exeter, or 'modern'
LDTs? I assume the latter, in which case most people use trail/enduro
bikes. You can use pretty much anything, from Honda step-throughs up to
1200GS BMs. My dad used to do the classic night LDTs on a Vincent twin.

A proper 'old' trials bike like a TY or TLR might make it all a bit
easy. Plus it'll need to be road registered. If you want it to be a bit
more challenging, go for something like an XT500, or ex-army MT. For
older still, a Greeves 380 would be cool ;-)

--
Krusty.

http://www.muddystuff.co.uk
http://www.muddystuff.us
Off-road classifieds

'02 MV Senna '96 Tiger '79 Fantic 250

 

That's more like it Ken. An honest opinion presented without having a go at
anyone else. As I don't have much knowledge of these matters, I can't say
whether or not I think this is good advice but I found it interesting to
read. Keep up the good work - and please don't go into overkill if someone
disagrees with you!

 

Bad form etc but if you ping Jack Stringer on the Rides list, he's
involved with organising LDTs so can tell you what's good & what's not.
E.g. some of the trailbike rallies ban 2Ts now, & the same could apply
to LDTs in the very near future.


--
Krusty.

http://www.muddystuff.co.uk
http://www.muddystuff.us
Off-road classifieds

'02 MV Senna '96 Tiger '79 Fantic 250

 

I restored a UK-market four piper a few years ago. They're pretty OK to
restore, especially as you can still find most of the parts. And IMHO
they sound gorgeous.

That said, I sold it after riding it a couple of times because, as TOG
already said, they're not that great to ride.

 

Indeed. We have such short memories! They are an always were in the main
unreliable wobbly underbraked pieces of shit.
There were rational reasons people still rode Tritons and the like at
that time. You got good handling and good brakes which worked in the wet
to go with your unreliable leaky engine.

 

Makes you wonder if anybody built a Honton...

 

Big heavy old trail bikes are not that much fun to ride on the road
even, and can be a nightmare riding in muddy LDT events. As I said in
my earlier post, trials bike wise a TLR would be the best choice, and
if you have something like this, you could also take in a few trials
events as well if you fancied it at all.

k

 

I've seen several CB engines in such rolling chassis. Trouble with the
featherbed/roadholder/lockheed type of setup is that it was only good
for 50-60bhp and smooth roads. Put in a high performance engine and
thrash it down some average B roads and it will be rubbish.

 

Ho yuss. One of my early biking regrets was not buying the
wideline-framed, 500/4 engined one I took out for a test ride back in,
ohh, about 1978. Lovely handling bike, it was, and quite
well-finished, but there was no tickover, which the owner claimed was
deliberate but worried me slightly. Should still have bought it, mind.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2
`\|/`
`

 

Agree so far. He might even escape from the killfile if he keeps this
up.

It isn't. A quick scan through the thousands of LDT photos on
http://gallery.jackstringer.co.uk/ will show that hardly anybody uses
trials bikes for LDTs.

That seems to be the thing he struggles with. For example part of the
'Surprise' thread went something like:

Me: <'79 Fantic 250 in my sig>

Ken: "You & your dad are clueless, Fantic didn't make a 250 until 1984."

Me: <explains about the 15 250s they did make>

Ken: "You stupid ****, they didn't go into production".

Of course nobody said they did go into production, but Ken had to
change tack as saying "oh, I didn't know that" would presumably have
made his head explode.

--
Krusty.

http://www.muddystuff.co.uk
http://www.muddystuff.us
Off-road classifieds

'02 MV Senna '96 Tiger '79 Fantic 250

 

So when did Triumph start making featherbed frames?

But the NorVin naming doesn't follow that rule either, so who's to say
anything else should?

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2
`\|/`
`

 

Be fair, he might've been walking past a primary school at the time, &
sprayed high-velocity skull fragments everywhere. Think of the
children, goddamnit!

--
Krusty.

http://www.muddystuff.co.uk
http://www.muddystuff.us
Off-road classifieds

'02 MV Senna '96 Tiger '79 Fantic 250

 

That would have been very sweet. The right amount of power for the
chassis. Few vibes and no oil leakes. Did the CB500/550 escape the Honda
top end woes? I can't remember now.

The T120 unit engine in mine was very reliable in practice after some
careful building. It did leak a little but Mr Nylock and a bit of lock
wiring held it together. Hardly typical though and still unpleasant to
ride long distance.

 

I've got a factory workshop manual for the K0, K1 & K2 models of those.
(Pretty much the same for the rest of the K's as well)
Would you like a photocopy of it?
Free. (Well, buy me a pint for the postage)

Dave