Jerez - with spoilers

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Racing' started by Julian Bond, Apr 3, 2011.

  1. Julian Bond

    Switters Guest

    On British Eurosport the guys were saying that Elias has been saying that
    he cannot get enough heat into the Bridgestones, so doesn't have the
    feeling for the front that he would like. They've tried lots of
    possibilities for the geometry, but so far nothing is working.

    Apparently (as I recall) his ideal set up is like a chopper with no
    Switters, Apr 5, 2011
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  2. Julian Bond

    Switters Guest

    Ooooh, not seen that.
    Haven't seen the waving back one either.
    Not suprising. One of the big stories of the day, following a mistake
    from the 9x champ. Yeah, I'd follow him too if I were on camera duty.
    Heck, they even followed Cluzel into Marquez's garage.

    It was certainly entertaining. I'd have loved to have been there.
    Switters, Apr 5, 2011
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  3. Julian Bond

    Julian Bond Guest

    Julian Bond, Apr 5, 2011
  4. Julian Bond

    Ed Light Guest

    Ed Light, Apr 6, 2011
  5. Julian Bond

    Mark N Guest

    To fill this out a bit, Rossi has a history of making "mistakes", paying
    for it in a narrow sense but actually coming out on top in the broader
    sense, and in part because of the Rossi "unfair advantage", greater
    support from what should be impartial parties in the whole thing. When
    you boil it all down, how strikingly similar are Jerez '05 and Jerez '11?
    Mark N, Apr 8, 2011
  6. Julian Bond

    Mark N Guest

    One could say none of the guys on the podium should have been where they
    were - Lorenzo wouldn't likely have won in the dry and probably not in
    the wet had Silli, Rossi and Casey not all crashed, Hayden wouldn't have
    been close to the podium in the dry and seemed determined to avoid the
    podium on his fragged tires in the wet, and Pedrosa was on his way to
    his usual embarrassment in the rain when everything went sideways for
    almost everyone else (notice how less worn his tire was after the race -
    the product of his light weight and/or his tentative riding?). But they
    were survivors in a race decided almost entirely on the tires and their

    I felt the worst for Edwards, who lost a sure podium based on a
    mechanical. But Hayden inheriting that back made it a bit better. I
    guess Spies shows how bad the situation was out there once the tires
    went, not characteristic at all. On the other hand, I was just waiting
    for Silli to screw the pooch out there, and he delivered as expected.

    Lorenzo did what champions do, somehow; Stoner not, the helpless victim
    in this episode of the Valentino Rossi Show, and Pedrosa totally dodged
    a bullet on his way to better shoulder/arm health. Rossi did as well or
    better than he would have in the dry, and he also managed to cost a
    championship rival as much as 25 points in the process. In the end this
    could be a very critical moment in the championship, once it settles
    down and becomes a straight fight between 2, 3 or all 4 of these guys.
    Mark N, Apr 8, 2011
  7. Julian Bond

    Mark N Guest

    So Rossi walks into Stoner's garage wearing his helmet and with cameras
    in tow, and Casey has to adjust the interaction knowing that it will all
    be out there for the world to see, and in the public's democratic
    opinion you simply don't win any pissing match with Vale, by definition.
    Compare that to Pedrosa going to Hayden's motorhome at Estoril in 2006,
    just in street clothes, and taking his verbal whipping like a man(-boy).
    I think Casey just wanted to have that discussion on a man-to-man basis,
    just between them, where he could say what he wanted and not have it
    thrown back in his face by a biased press for months or years to come
    (remember Laguna '08?), and instead he got the Valentino Rossi Show. And
    I don't think there's much more to it than that.

    Sack up next time, Vale - as Biaggi might have said, this isn't
    performance art...
    Mark N, Apr 8, 2011
  8. Julian Bond

    pablo Guest

    true, but then again racing -like almost any success in life- always
    involves some luck on top. it's always conveniently forgotten after
    the fact.
    but they did. and, except for Stoner, they did because they made
    his race was strange. falling behind. coming back. slowing down.
    arguably they should have shortened the race.
    i somehow doubt Pedrosa will do any better after the surgery. it's
    always some other reason. it's clear Stoner is faster on the Honda,
    i hope not. the only big loser points wise was Stoner. he was riding
    like he deserved a load of them and missed them through no fault of
    his own (unlike everybody else that went down). on the other hand he's
    been riding like he is the top championship favorite, so perhaps this
    will help not make the season too one-sided after the first 4 or 5

    and if Rossi does that again, he deserves a heavy penalty.
    pablo, Apr 11, 2011
  9. Julian Bond

    Mark N Guest

    This race reminded me so much of Donington '09, then guys on slicks on
    a too-wet track, this time on rains on a too-dry track, both because
    of relatively recent rules construction regarding tires. Over the
    course of both races the pace fell off by about 10 seconds, as the
    tire and track conditions from the mismatch worsened. There were lots
    of crashers in both races, Stoner's races were disasters, and Rossi
    crashed in both only to pick it up and finish in 5th both times. For
    Lorenzo and Pedrosa this was a different deal, though, as Jorge
    crashed out last time while leading, and this time he let the race
    come to him and won. Pedrosa started out much like '09, falling down
    through the field as if his bike was stuck in reverse, but this time
    somehow that channged, and, unlike Lorenzo, I'm not so certain it's
    because he's gotten better in the wet or selected a better strategy.

    The winning strategy was Lorenzo's, which was to go into the lead at
    the start and then quickly back off, the track not being wet enough
    for the soft tires. So he posted his fastest lap and all his fastest
    section times on lap 2 and then slowed immediately. The one other
    rider to do that was Stoner, which suggests his thinking was the same
    and perhaps the outcome would have been similar had he not been taken
    out by Rossi. The other fast guys who ended up in the dirt or with
    shot tires all posted fast laps and sections later, although that kind
    of speed was over quickly in this race, with no one posting a race
    fast lap after lap 5 (Pedrosa and Hayden) or a fast section time after
    lap 7 (Aoyama; Nick had two on lap 6). And I suspect that cost all
    these guys on tire and grip. From then on it was about how quickly
    guys slowed, and Lorenzo managed that the best. After his bad opening
    laps Pedrosa continued to close on Lorenzo until lap 15, when the
    margin was down to 1.2 second, but Jorge pretty quickly pulled away
    after that, maintaining his pace much better than Dani, who had to
    give up a spot to Spies before having that gifted back. Dani's tire
    was clearly in better shape than the others in parc ferme, with
    visible tread remaining. So I don't see much more than giood fortune
    getting him to 2nd, with his machine or his style or perhaps-tentative
    rain riding or lighter weight wearing his tire less, his backing off
    to save rubber later into the race (if at all), and his inability to
    stay with JL in the 2nd half of the race on what looked like a better

    In any case, I'm also not sure that I like rules which end up with
    these guys doing a whole race in a situation like that, or the one at
    Donington in '09.
    Yes, but we won't see ever see that, will we? We haven't seen it yet,
    and Rossi has done MUCH worse...
    Mark N, Apr 13, 2011
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