Just failed the CA DMV motorcycle popsicle test (and I thought Ihad passed)

Discussion in 'Bay Area Bikers' started by Joe Mastroianni, Feb 19, 2013.

  1. It's more complicated than that because they get $300 per class
    for BRC instructors, for example.
    Charlie Albertelli, Mar 1, 2013
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  2. Joe Mastroianni

    Danny D. Guest

    I was pretty clear in what I had said. I said total revenue.
    I didn't say yearly revenue.

    Anyone who lives in California is familiar with companies spending
    millions to sponsor laws which benefit THEM!

    They calculate how much money, in toto, they can receive by
    passing the law. That gives them a business plan as to how much
    they can spend in trying to get the propositions passed.
    Danny D., Mar 1, 2013
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  3. Joe Mastroianni

    Twibil Guest

    Atta boy! It's *obvious* that any mixture of public and
    private must needs be "incestuous" in nature.

    (Free Hint: don't ever let anyone tell you about the Department
    of Defense and the Pentagon. "Incest" doesn't *begin* to cover
    Twibil, Mar 2, 2013
  4. Joe Mastroianni

    Twibil Guest

    Gee, Al; do you live in a Communist state? One,
    that is to say, where it's supposedly not "all about

    And, if not, where does it say that making money
    is a *bad* thing?
    Twibil, Mar 2, 2013
  5. Joe Mastroianni

    Twibil Guest

    Oh dear.

    Al, please listen closely: nobody has ever claimed that
    no money changes hands for the CMSP classes. Nor
    have they claimed that considered in total it isn't a hefty

    But what you keep missing is that once the *costs* are
    factored in nobody is getting rich teaching motorcycle
    safety. Not the teachers. Not the school's owners.
    And certainly not the states themselves.

    It's not a scam. And the only reason it's there at all
    is because without the MSF classes a lot more motorcycle
    riders got squashed on a regular basis than was the case

    Get it now?
    Twibil, Mar 2, 2013
  6. Joe Mastroianni

    Twibil Guest

    ? And this doesn't happen everywhere else too?

    My, but you *are* naive!
    Now all you have to do is demonstrate that (A) that happened
    in this case, and that (B) it wasn't a good idea.
    Twibil, Mar 2, 2013
  7. There is a difference between "not for money" and "not for profit". It
    doesn't take a genius to understand this, which is why you can't.
    The Older Gentleman, Mar 2, 2013
  8. Joe Mastroianni

    gpsman Guest

    I think the unstated issue is "training is worthless, I know as much
    as there is to know and I learned myself it all for nothing".
    gpsman, Mar 2, 2013

  9. I think you're right.
    The Older Gentleman, Mar 2, 2013
  10. While I appreciate the compliment, I don't compose that well, really. I
    doubt the fee is tax deductible as it's not really a donation, so I don't
    know of a difference.
    It's interesting that the BRC is mandatory for younger riders in CA. I took
    Driver's Training via the California school system in 1969, the year my
    family made their final move to Alaska. It was a worthwhile class, both
    in-class and behind the wheel. I started riding the following year in
    Alaska, probably before there was a motorcycle class or maybe even a
    motorcycle operator license up here. The DMV test I took in 2000 wasn't
    that difficult. I rode a 750 Nighthawk, which is a bit top heavy (in-line
    4), but had no problem. Perhaps the CA DMV test is much more difficult.

    I imagine the state of CA wanted riders to be trained, but didn't want to
    get into the business of training riders due to the liability. Ideally
    riders training would be offered via the school system, but motorcycles
    only have 2 wheels, no seatbelt, no airbags, etc. Steering people to a MSF
    compliant vendor is a good solution for CA. I wouldn't be surprised to find
    that either the MSF or the company who actually gives the class approached
    the state with the idea of completing an MSF class in lieu of taking the
    rider test but that's what people do. Everyone with a business tries to
    grow it.

    $250 is a lot of money for low income families, but getting a less
    expensive bike might help make up the BRC expense.
    Robert Bolton, Mar 2, 2013
  11. Joe Mastroianni

    Twibil Guest

    It was partially the liability question, but mainly the
    fact that the state never had to money to run a tax-
    supported program in the first place.

    As Tim pointed out, they'd have to hire an entire corps
    of specially-trained instructors, they'd have to purchase
    and equip a number of areas designed to facilitate the
    teaching and testing, and they'd have to purchase -and
    maintain- a large number of bikes for the students to ride.

    Where would they have ever found the dollars for the
    original investments, given that it would have been spent
    exclusively for the relatively small percentage of drivers
    who wanted/needed a motorcycle endorsement?

    It simply wasn't practical.
    Twibil, Mar 2, 2013
  12. Joe Mastroianni

    Hank J. Guest

    The more training the better.

    I have some friends who work at the DMV so I'll give them
    a call to see if I can gather up some statistics.
    Hank J., Mar 2, 2013
  13. The bikes are donated, no?

    The school parking lots are rented for next to nothing, on weekends, no?

    The CHP pays for their own administrative costs, no?

    Seems to me their only real cost that isn't heavily subsidized is
    liability insurance.
    Charlie Albertelli, Mar 2, 2013
  14. Joe Mastroianni

    Al Schmidt Guest

    The Older Gentleman wrote on Sat, 02 Mar 2013 07:01:44 +0000:
    Who brought up the whole not-for-profit thing anyway?

    It wasn't me.
    Al Schmidt, Mar 2, 2013
  15. Joe Mastroianni

    Al Schmidt Guest

    Twibil wrote on Fri, 01 Mar 2013 16:32:48 -0800:
    It wasn't me who brought up the not-for-profit stuff.

    And, it wasn't me who said they make a paltry amount of money.

    I'm just bringing the facts to the equation, that's all.
    Al Schmidt, Mar 2, 2013
  16. Joe Mastroianni

    tomorrow Guest

    That's hilarious.
    tomorrow, Mar 2, 2013
  17. There is a difference between who brought it up and who is still arguing
    the toss. It doesn't take a genius to understand this, which is why you
    The Older Gentleman, Mar 2, 2013
  18. Joe Mastroianni

    Twibil Guest

    The words "facts", "suppositions", and "opinions"
    do not mean the same things; and you were offering
    the latter two rather than the first.

    Twibil, Mar 3, 2013
  19. Joe Mastroianni

    Al Schmidt Guest

    The Older Gentleman wrote on Sat, 02 Mar 2013 22:11:00 +0000:
    Childish slurs aside, we can all clearly say that the "non-profit"
    status of the CMSP or MSF is meaningless in terms of the intelligent
    "conversation" we are supposed to be having here.
    Al Schmidt, Mar 3, 2013
  20. Excuse my ignorance. What is a popsicle course?

    Takes a beating but keeps on ticking.......

    2004 H-D Road King
    1978 Triumph Bonneville
    Roadworshiper, Mar 3, 2013
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