Leathers

On 3 Feb 2006 00:03:04 -0800, "Paul Varnsverry" <>
wrote:
snip>

I doubt anybody disagrees with you that clothing carrying a CE
tested/approved label will be better than something that's failed the
test procedures. The only trouble is that the next step along the line
is making the use of said protective clothing compulsary for road use.

You don't need bhp limits or tracking devices to make me throw the
towel in as far as riding bikes is concerned. Take away my right to
ride in jeans and trainers and I'll sell the bike immediately.

 

....or never been submitted for test. Why test something you know will
fail (unless you don't know how it will perform and need to find out
how close - or how far - the product is to the requirement?

As for compulsion; no! I would never agree to that. I wear tested and
approved clothing because that is my choice and I happen to think the
product I now have represents the most complete motorcycling ensemble
it has ever been my pleasure to possess, so why would I *not* want to
use it?

 

I think it's a toss up between manufacturers saying "our kit really is
good so why spend money proving it" and others saying "**** that, we
could lose customers here". The trouble is that we need to know which
is which and an industry standard doesn't prove anything apart from
the fact that someone has got it right as far as testing procedures
go.

I own a set of Wolf one piece leathers (with no CE approval) and I've
slung them down a racetrack at speed with minimal damage to myself.
I'd happily buy Wolf leathers again and I'd recommend them to anyone
who asked the question. Others may disagree but I can only go by my
personal experiences. I've also been lucky wearing jeans and a very
shonky leather jacket but I'm not sure I'd actually recommend them to
someone else.

I want as many choices as I can get when it comes to what I wear on a
bike but I want the option of going out in a pair of Levis, trainers
and a lightweight nylon jacket if I want to.

 

Andy Bonwick wrote:

Wolf garments generally enjoy a good reputation for what remain "caveat
emptor" products. However, *if* my information is correct their UK
manufacturing capability is allegedly being or has already been closed
and future supplies will come from outside these shores. There is no
problem with that as long as the former standards of materials and
workmanship are maintained.

And I know of very few people who would disagree with your right to
make that choice, although some would express a preference not to have
to attend to complicated injuries when presented with motorcyclists
wearing lightweight clothing.

 

If I was given one of those Halvarsson (sp?) safety jackets for free,
I'd wear it too )

 

Champ emerged from their own little world to say

I whole heartedly agree with your sentiment.

However, medics are often succumbing to an ersatz morality and rationing
healthcare[1] based on criteria beyond clinical need e.g. economic
rationality; a patient's lifestyle or even postcode.

[1] though not for emergent medicine AFAIK

 

Did you watch the program on the other day that talked about how some
of the NHS Trusts are using BMI values to determine whether or not you
would get treatment for various injuries.

Out of about 20 Rugby players they checked, only 4 would have got
treatment - the others being "too fat".

That, IMO, is a silly system.

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Champ

So you'd be happy if a doctor refused to treat your broken bones unless
you promised to give up biking and snowboarding?

--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - There are few things in life more sinister than a
public toilet with the lid closed.

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
SBS#39 OMF#6 Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
Honda GL1000K2 (On its hols) Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big"
Suzuki TS250 "The Africa Single" Yamaha GTS1000

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Champ

Yes.

--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - There are few things in life more sinister than a
public toilet with the lid closed.

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
SBS#39 OMF#6 Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
Honda GL1000K2 (On its hols) Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big"
Suzuki TS250 "The Africa Single" Yamaha GTS1000

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Champ

Oh I dunno, a doctor could argue that if the bone rebreaks and bends the
pin (*waves* to Frag), then the chances of it successfully rehealing are
much reduced. It would be only reasonable to require you to minimise
that risk.

Wouldn't it?

--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - There are few things in life more sinister than a
public toilet with the lid closed.

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
SBS#39 OMF#6 Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
Honda GL1000K2 (On its hols) Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big"
Suzuki TS250 "The Africa Single" Yamaha GTS1000

 

Champ emerged from their own little world to say

No

You use the phrases "likely success" and "could perhaps cause" i.e. risk
factors rather than absolutes.

I think it is appropriate that a medic appraises a patient of the risk
factors but to withhold treatment only due to that risk is wrong.

I'm particularly referring to arbitrary risk factors such as BMI for joint
replacements already mentioned above. Obviously, if there are finite
resources, such as available organs for transplant, then it might be just
to select a recipient based on risk factors, amongst other things. However,
if a donor liver and surgical team are available but the only matched
recipient has a high risk of destroying the new one I don't see a problem.
The recipient *might* change their lifestyle in the future.

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Champ

Well, I'm a doctor, and we know these things.

Off with it!

--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - There are few things in life more sinister than a
public toilet with the lid closed.

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
SBS#39 OMF#6 Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
Honda GL1000K2 (On its hols) Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big"
Suzuki TS250 "The Africa Single" Yamaha GTS1000

 

Paul Varnsverry said...

I have had two Wolf leather jackets. I bought the first in 1979 and it
lasted me 6 years of solid abuse. I did a lot of my youthful crashing in
it and there wasn't a hole in it anywhere. I replaced it when the lining
fell out. The replacement was almost identical, and I still own it 20
years later. I've crashed a few times in that one and again there is
hardly a mark on it.

 

**** them if they don't like it. They can change their jobs or do what
they're paid to do, it's their choice.

 

I've still got mine - suspect that we bought them at the same fine
establishment )

Can't fit in it anymore, coz I'm a lot rounder than I was!
It does fit my nieces nicely though.

 

BMI is bollocks. Mine is 28.5 which is "over-weight" bordering on
"obese".

And yet, I'm a 34/35 inch waist and able to cycle 50 odd miles three
times a week at a hard pace and run a couple of miles non-stop.

 

The message <>

Indeed - no replacement, can't exercise properly, too obese, no
replacement - they're in a loop, innit.

 

Complete suit, in fact (jacket and trousers), and the technical and
ergonomic evaluation has been ongoing for nine months.

 

I think the Outlast liner is a bit pointless. Just more bulk. I had one
of these warmer/cooler liners from BMW and discarded it as pointless.
This one has gone the same way.

To be really smart build in heating ribbons to the internal layer of the
armour jacket.

 

I have never worn the Outlast liners in my Halvarssons suit, either. I
took them out the moment it arrived. I do wear either Outlast or
Coolmax clothing underneath the suit, however.

Worn over an Outlast base layer, with a close fitting sweatshirt, I've
found the suit keeps me warm at ambient temperatures of around zero;
much lower with wind chill taken into account (Swedish design - they
know how to make clothes that keep you warm in cold weather).