Leave helmet on or off?

Discussion in 'UK Motorcycles' started by Ballistic, Mar 29, 2007.

  1. Ballistic

    Ballistic Guest

    I arrived at a bike vs car accident yesterday just seconds after it
    happened. The car driver was getting out and running to the bike as I
    was slowing down.[1]

    After draging the ZZR14 off the rider with the help of the driver and
    another chap who had stopped I suggested that he should stay very still
    and should leave his helmet on until the ambulance arrived. I then
    noticed that I hadn't left my bike in a great position so went and
    moved it. When I returned the helmet had been removed and the rider was
    complaining of chest and leg pain.

    I stayed and tried to be helpfull until the police said they didn't
    want my details since I wasn't a witness, but what's the correct thing
    to do with the helmet in these situations?

    [1] Farmer in a Daihatsu Foutrack pulling a large trailer was crossing
    a road on the brow of a hill with a bend on the approach by the bike. I
    was approaching from the other direction and thought "That's a stupid
    place to stop". ZZR14 had low-sided and hit the car on the passenger
    side sill causing a suprising amount of damage to the car.
     
    Ballistic, Mar 29, 2007
    #1
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  2. Ballistic

    BORG Guest


    ALWAYS leave it on
    --

    XJ900 Trike ** GS850 Trike
    XV1000 TR1 Chop ** XLH1200 Sporty Chop

    [Rot 13 it]
     
    BORG, Mar 29, 2007
    #2
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  3. Ballistic

    GungaDan Guest

    The advice I received at a first aid course a little over a year ago
    (so may already be out of date) was that you should leave the helmet
    on unless the subject was unconscious and/or showing signs of
    distress. I.e., if you need access to check airways or perform CPR.
    And if you do have to remove it try to get someone else to support the
    head and neck while doing it.
     
    GungaDan, Mar 29, 2007
    #3
  4. Ballistic

    GungaDan Guest

    Errr. No.
     
    GungaDan, Mar 29, 2007
    #4
  5. Ballistic

    elyob Guest

    Who took it off?
     
    elyob, Mar 29, 2007
    #5
  6. Ballistic

    Ace Guest

    Firstly, if the victim is conscious and mobile then it's their
    decision, not yours. Sure, if they've obviously suffered neck/back
    injury you may advise them to leave the helmet on until the whole head
    can be stabilised by a a trained ambulance crew, but in the event that
    the victim's already moving about it's pretty pointless really.

    When I had my prang last year, I think I removed the helmet fairly
    soon afterwards, although it's a bit of a blur. Certainly I'd stood
    up, hoping (in vain) that it would help me to breathe, and then asked
    a couple of stopped motorists to help me sit/lie back down again, and
    I think I'd taken it off at around that time.

    In an unconcious casualty everything changes, as the very first thing
    you need to do as a first-aider (trained or not) is to make sure they
    can breathe and _continue_ to do so. If they've got a restrictive,
    full-face helmet on it may be impossible to do so, so it's imperative
    that it be removed, obviously in as gentle a fashion as can be done.

    As first-aid instructors are wont to say "It's not much good avoiding
    spinal damage if they choke on their own vomit".

    --
    _______
    ..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
    \`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3 (slightly broken, currently missing)
    `\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
    `\|/`
    `
     
    Ace, Mar 29, 2007
    #6
  7. Ballistic

    Beav Guest

    Simple. If he's still breathing, leave it on.


    --
    Beav

    VN 750
    Zed 1000
    OMF# 19
     
    Beav, Mar 29, 2007
    #7
  8. Ballistic

    Ace Guest

    And how would you propose to verify their breathing, and continue to
    monitor it? Looking for chest movement is not reliable, either as a
    positive or negative indicator, so if you can't check that an
    unconscious victim's airways are clear you can't be sure.

    --
    _______
    ..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
    \`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3 (slightly broken, currently missing)
    `\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
    `\|/`
    `
     
    Ace, Mar 29, 2007
    #8
  9. Ballistic

    BORG Guest


    Full face or open faced helmet ?
    --

    XJ900 Trike ** GS850 Trike
    XV1000 TR1 Chop ** XLH1200 Sporty Chop

    [Rot 13 it]
     
    BORG, Mar 29, 2007
    #9
  10. Ballistic

    Ace Guest

    What do you think?

    --
    _______
    ..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
    \`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3 (slightly broken, currently missing)
    `\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
    `\|/`
    `
     
    Ace, Mar 29, 2007
    #10
  11. Is the right answer. It's always going to be a bit unknown if the rider
    has sustained a severe neck injury, but if he's not breathing that's
    kind of moot anyway.
     
    Grimly Curmudgeon, Mar 29, 2007
    #11
  12. Carefully open the visor and fart in their face.
     
    Grimly Curmudgeon, Mar 29, 2007
    #12
  13. Ballistic

    Nursey Guest

    Generally on, but there are exceptions.

    Others have said that if the person is not breathing then they would
    remove it. I personally would leave it on as there is NO way that I
    would perform mouth to mouth on anyone apart from immediate family and
    Kiera Knightly [1][2]. When I have been teaching Basic Life Support,
    this usually comes up about what to do if you have witnessed a biker
    accident. I generally tell them to leave the helmet on (see [2])

    [1] usually gets a laugh and is a good icebreaker because it comes out
    at the start of the session

    [2] Compression only CPR is a valid first aid response without the lack
    of suitable equipment. (see www.resus.org.uk)
    --
    Nursey RN
    ALS & APLS Provider
    MIRTTH#6 IbW#09 4#COFF EFFA MOP#1
    Honda CBF600 ABS
    (nursey at ukrm dot net)
    UKRM FAQ: http://www.ukrm.net/faq/
     
    Nursey, Mar 29, 2007
    #13
  14. Ballistic

    Krusty Guest

    She hates it when people spell her name wrong you know. She was
    whinging about it only the other day, til I told her to shut the ****
    up & keep sucking. Bitch.


    --
    Krusty
    www.MuddyStuff.co.uk
    Off-Road Classifieds

    '02 MV Senna '03 Tiger 955i '96 Tiger '79 Fantic Hiro 250
     
    Krusty, Mar 29, 2007
    #14
  15. Ballistic

    Ace Guest

    What, you wouldn't even check their airways? Sorry, but that's
    completely the wrong message. Do you guys not actually do any
    first-aid training? Remember the ABCs?

    As it happens, I always carry a face shield in my first-aid kit, so
    can assume that I would be prepared to offer M2M if required, but it's
    a moot point if they're already choking.
    Ahh, you do. Does this actually cover accident scenarios?
    OK, some interesting stuff there, and I'm assuming that they're
    assuming that abdominal thrusts will clear any blockage - I'll look
    out for this on my 3-year update next year. But, and it seems to me to
    be a failry major but, see them bits that say 'Open Airway' and
    'Keeping the Airway Open...'? How you gonna do that with the
    (full-face) helmet on?

    --
    _______
    ..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
    \`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3 (slightly broken, currently missing)
    `\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
    `\|/`
    `
     
    Ace, Mar 29, 2007
    #15
  16. Ballistic

    Ace Guest

    D'oh. Silly me.

    --
    _______
    ..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
    \`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3 (slightly broken, currently missing)
    `\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
    `\|/`
    `
     
    Ace, Mar 29, 2007
    #16
  17. Ballistic

    Dan White Guest

    Stab them in the throat.
     
    Dan White, Mar 29, 2007
    #17
  18. Ballistic

    Monkey Guest

    Same advice SO was given on her course last year. Recommended technique for
    single-handed helmet removal is to slide both hands slightly inside the lid
    (palms inwards), then apply outward pressure to spread the sides of the
    helmet, and pull (or rather push) off in as straight a line as possible.

    With multiple helpers, one removes the lid while the others support the neck
    and shoulders, IIRC.
     
    Monkey, Mar 29, 2007
    #18
  19. Ballistic

    Blippie Guest

    Sounds like leaving it three years is too long. There were some big changes
    to CPR algorythyms last year. It would be worth you updating ASAP, not
    leaving it until next year.

    Cheers

    Blippie (lurking paramedic)
     
    Blippie, Mar 29, 2007
    #19
  20. Ballistic

    Monkey Guest


    Yebbut what saved a life three years ago will still save a life now - the
    main thing they've stressed on all the courses I've been on, is that it's
    better to try something than nothing (in an emergency situation at least),
    even if superior techniques are now available. Fifteen compressions and two
    breaths is better than no compressions and no breaths.
     
    Monkey, Mar 29, 2007
    #20
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