Leave helmet on or off?

I arrived at a bike vs car accident yesterday just seconds after it
happened. The car driver was getting out and running to the bike as I
was slowing down.[1]

After draging the ZZR14 off the rider with the help of the driver and
another chap who had stopped I suggested that he should stay very still
and should leave his helmet on until the ambulance arrived. I then
noticed that I hadn't left my bike in a great position so went and
moved it. When I returned the helmet had been removed and the rider was
complaining of chest and leg pain.

I stayed and tried to be helpfull until the police said they didn't
want my details since I wasn't a witness, but what's the correct thing
to do with the helmet in these situations?

[1] Farmer in a Daihatsu Foutrack pulling a large trailer was crossing
a road on the brow of a hill with a bend on the approach by the bike. I
was approaching from the other direction and thought "That's a stupid
place to stop". ZZR14 had low-sided and hit the car on the passenger
side sill causing a suprising amount of damage to the car.

 

ALWAYS leave it on
--

XJ900 Trike ** GS850 Trike
XV1000 TR1 Chop ** XLH1200 Sporty Chop

[Rot 13 it]

 

The advice I received at a first aid course a little over a year ago
(so may already be out of date) was that you should leave the helmet
on unless the subject was unconscious and/or showing signs of
distress. I.e., if you need access to check airways or perform CPR.
And if you do have to remove it try to get someone else to support the
head and neck while doing it.

 

Errr. No.

 

Who took it off?

 

Firstly, if the victim is conscious and mobile then it's their
decision, not yours. Sure, if they've obviously suffered neck/back
injury you may advise them to leave the helmet on until the whole head
can be stabilised by a a trained ambulance crew, but in the event that
the victim's already moving about it's pretty pointless really.

When I had my prang last year, I think I removed the helmet fairly
soon afterwards, although it's a bit of a blur. Certainly I'd stood
up, hoping (in vain) that it would help me to breathe, and then asked
a couple of stopped motorists to help me sit/lie back down again, and
I think I'd taken it off at around that time.

In an unconcious casualty everything changes, as the very first thing
you need to do as a first-aider (trained or not) is to make sure they
can breathe and _continue_ to do so. If they've got a restrictive,
full-face helmet on it may be impossible to do so, so it's imperative
that it be removed, obviously in as gentle a fashion as can be done.

As first-aid instructors are wont to say "It's not much good avoiding
spinal damage if they choke on their own vomit".

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3 (slightly broken, currently missing)
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
`\|/`
`

 

Simple. If he's still breathing, leave it on.


--
Beav

VN 750
Zed 1000
OMF# 19

 

And how would you propose to verify their breathing, and continue to
monitor it? Looking for chest movement is not reliable, either as a
positive or negative indicator, so if you can't check that an
unconscious victim's airways are clear you can't be sure.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3 (slightly broken, currently missing)
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
`\|/`
`

 

Full face or open faced helmet ?
--

XJ900 Trike ** GS850 Trike
XV1000 TR1 Chop ** XLH1200 Sporty Chop

[Rot 13 it]

 

What do you think?

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3 (slightly broken, currently missing)
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
`\|/`
`

 

Is the right answer. It's always going to be a bit unknown if the rider
has sustained a severe neck injury, but if he's not breathing that's
kind of moot anyway.

 

Carefully open the visor and fart in their face.

 

Generally on, but there are exceptions.

Others have said that if the person is not breathing then they would
remove it. I personally would leave it on as there is NO way that I
would perform mouth to mouth on anyone apart from immediate family and
Kiera Knightly [1][2]. When I have been teaching Basic Life Support,
this usually comes up about what to do if you have witnessed a biker
accident. I generally tell them to leave the helmet on (see [2])

[1] usually gets a laugh and is a good icebreaker because it comes out
at the start of the session

[2] Compression only CPR is a valid first aid response without the lack
of suitable equipment. (see www.resus.org.uk)
--
Nursey RN
ALS & APLS Provider
MIRTTH#6 IbW#09 4#COFF EFFA MOP#1
Honda CBF600 ABS
(nursey at ukrm dot net)
UKRM FAQ: http://www.ukrm.net/faq/

 

She hates it when people spell her name wrong you know. She was
whinging about it only the other day, til I told her to shut the ****
up & keep sucking. Bitch.


--
Krusty
www.MuddyStuff.co.uk
Off-Road Classifieds

'02 MV Senna '03 Tiger 955i '96 Tiger '79 Fantic Hiro 250

 

What, you wouldn't even check their airways? Sorry, but that's
completely the wrong message. Do you guys not actually do any
first-aid training? Remember the ABCs?

As it happens, I always carry a face shield in my first-aid kit, so
can assume that I would be prepared to offer M2M if required, but it's
a moot point if they're already choking.

Ahh, you do. Does this actually cover accident scenarios?

OK, some interesting stuff there, and I'm assuming that they're
assuming that abdominal thrusts will clear any blockage - I'll look
out for this on my 3-year update next year. But, and it seems to me to
be a failry major but, see them bits that say 'Open Airway' and
'Keeping the Airway Open...'? How you gonna do that with the
(full-face) helmet on?

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3 (slightly broken, currently missing)
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
`\|/`
`

 

D'oh. Silly me.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3 (slightly broken, currently missing)
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
`\|/`
`

 

Stab them in the throat.

 

Same advice SO was given on her course last year. Recommended technique for
single-handed helmet removal is to slide both hands slightly inside the lid
(palms inwards), then apply outward pressure to spread the sides of the
helmet, and pull (or rather push) off in as straight a line as possible.

With multiple helpers, one removes the lid while the others support the neck
and shoulders, IIRC.

 

Sounds like leaving it three years is too long. There were some big changes
to CPR algorythyms last year. It would be worth you updating ASAP, not
leaving it until next year.

Cheers

Blippie (lurking paramedic)

 

Yebbut what saved a life three years ago will still save a life now - the
main thing they've stressed on all the courses I've been on, is that it's
better to try something than nothing (in an emergency situation at least),
even if superior techniques are now available. Fifteen compressions and two
breaths is better than no compressions and no breaths.