Legal question, so far off topic that you wouldn't believe it.

Right, this one really, really is wildly OT, but I'm trusting the old maxim
that ukrm knows _everything_.

For a little while now I've been giving idle contemplation to building a
climbing wall at home, just for a bit of training at weekends and summer
evenings.

Now, ignoring the huge problem of slipping this past the house finance and
building modifications committee (Lisa) I wondered if there might be another
problem.

The only place I could put said climbing wall is up the side of the house.
Being a detached house there are two walls that are ideal for this purpose,
having no windows or doors, but lots of brick.

Access to one of these sides is restricted because there's a gate, but the
other side can be reached simply by walking over our lawn. It's the side
without the gate that I was thinking of using, because the other side is our
path from the back garden to the front of the house and I don't want my project
to get in the way and/or restrict access.

However, and this is my question, if I built a climbing wall here where it
could be accessed by anybody willing to tramp over our front lawn and somebody
injured themselves while using it, without my permission, would they have a
claim against me?

Would it make a difference if I put up signs saying, "Private climbing wall -
keep your pikey hands off!" or if I restricted access with a gate?

Anyone?

--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, TEAR#3 (and KotL), DS#5, Keeper of the TFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.

 

The place I climb at has signs saying that you climb at your own risk. If
this works for a public climbing wall, I would have thought that it would
work on a private one.

 

Surely such a sign on a private residence may as well say "Come Climb Up
the Side of My House, If You Think You're Hard Enough. Tosser" or some
such.

 

We have a similar problem at my school. We have had the local pratt squad
break in during the summer and swim in our pool (outdoor). They caused loads
of damage
and expense.

But the police told me that if one of them drowned then we would be liable?

Now he could be talking bollocks but I believed him.

 

Sometime back one of my then colleagues was called to a suicide at one of
the companies 15M towers. The Police who were on site at the time suggested
to him that the company would be liable for allowing access. In order to
kill himself the victim[1] had scaled a 2M fence topped with barbed wire and
then climbed the tower either up the legs and or the access ladder before
jumping from the top[2]. The tower legs had anti-climb downward spikes with
barbed wire and the ladder had a padlocked access again with anti-climb
measures.

AFAIK there was never any action taken against the company, and I am pretty
certain any case would have failed because there were obvious precautions
against access taken. In much the same way that BT poles require a ladder to
access the steps rather than having step down to street level. If you can
restrict access physically in some way that should help prevent you being
liable when some numpty falls to his/her death.

[1] Not sure if that's correct really a victim is I assume unwilling.
[2] His watch and personal possessions were at the top.

--
Ian
From & Reply-To are valid but filtered http://www.despammed.com
znvygb: (ROT13 all of it to mail me)
FAQ here http://www.ukrm.net/faq/index.html
98 FZS600, 72 T120R two#34 MIB#21 TWA#6

 

[snip tale of doom]

Installing CCTV is a must, so if someone does fall to their death, you can
post a copy on the net

 

We have the interesting development of forward facing cameras on trains
(to be used for disputed signals and other sighting issues).

At Coroners Courts, one of the key questions is "were the actions of the
victim deliberate, were they trying to move away etc." I pity the poor
bastard that'll have to view that evidence and the 12 citizens good and
true.

...and there's the security issues, to prevent it appearing on the 'net.

 

Why not fix the lower hand/toe holds with rawl bolts that you can remove
when not in use?
--

Stu
XJ900
YTC#11 OSOS#23
pull my plonker when replying

 

I think when you have moved to the Vatican, you'll have loads of
spaces that you could add a climbing wall to. And those Swiss guards
to keep away the jobbing locals. although I suppose the locals at the
vatican would be too busy falling off scooters and eating ice cream to
bother attempting your climbing wall.

That, and a notice saying "I might not be able to see you, but HE
can!"

 

Because some gimp will get 1/2 way up the wall without the holds, fall off
and still sue you. Third party/public liability means that, no matter what
precautions you take, if some idiot hurts themselves on your property, they
still stand a good chance if they sue you. Most signs declaring that people
doing whatever they do on whatever premises are liable for their own actions
don't hold up in court. Any disclaimer mentioning "cannot be held
responsible" or "own risk" isn't worth the plastic it's printed on. Under
public liability rules, you are pretty much always responsible if something
happens to someone on your premises.

 

[snip]

The Swiss Guard are too busy trying to burn ants with the magnifying glasses
on their Swiss Army Knives, or trying to work out how to use the wierd
shaped blade on the knife that noone can find a use for.

 

It's a hook, for carrying parcels.

 

No, 'snot. It's for removing Boy Scouts from horses hooveses.

 

Chain up a Rottweiler at the bottom of the wall. If they get up,
they'll stay up.

Get a name locally for being well-armed and eccentric (the Whittingham
Defence).

Lock down a grid of foot-long spikes under the wall when you're not
using it.

--
Platypus - Faster Than Champ
VN800 Drifter, R80RT
DIAABTCOD#2 GPOTHUF#19
BOTAFOS#6 BOTAFOT#89 FTB#11
BOB#1 SBS#35 ANORAK#18 TWA#15

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Platypus

Oh **** that, go for the real "free-climbing" experience. Weld the
bastards down.

 

Fortunately that's total crap.

 

Andrew, If you were to post this to the UKclimbing.com forum there are a
number of climber lawyers ther who will be delighted to mislead and
annoy you!

 

Get a name locally for being well-armed and eccentric (the Whittingham
Defence).
[/QUOTE]

Oi!
I'll have you know I've sold a lot of 'em when I moved.
But I was thinking of getting a full bore for fun and maybe a pistol for
target to add on to my ticket.

 

Ignoring the legal side which I know nothing about. How visible would
you be from the road? Depending on how much of an exhibitionist you
are, would you be put off by the inevitable mickey taking from
passers-by?

Of course it will boost the sale value of your house no end;-)

 

Nah, I've had grout pout for the last few weeks, tiling the bathrooom.

Feck me it's harder than it looks 'specially when the walls aren't
anywhere near straight

Bath fettling tomorrow. Angle grinder time ... !

Cheers,

Paul.