Lorenzo's Luck

....if I were Jorge's mum I'd be worrying about him trying just too hard...
He seems to be coming off rather a lot, and is stacking up an impressive
injury list. After his latest off on Friday arv and subsequent
hospitalisation in Barcelona:
`I am pleased to say that Jorge´s condition is improving well,´ said Dr. Mir
on Saturday afternoon. `He had a good night and has had a good rest. We
cannot say anything in more detail until tomorrow afternoon at the earliest,
but I am pleased to say that he has recovered his memory 100%. Tomorrow we
will do another neurological examination and also another examination of his
right hand, when we will decide whether a skin graft will be necessary on
his fourth and fifth fingers.´

I know Casey did a lot of crashing as well in his first year - is this a
sort of "baptism by fire" for future motoGP champions?

betty

 

I think it is.

You can't "perfect" that kind of "performance" without repeatedly
crashing.

Those maniacs live by the aphorism "That which doesn't kill you, makes
you faster."



Onya bike...

Gerry

 

If you want to ride close to the line of hero/goat, you need to know
where the line is.

These blokes know that they can cross the line and make it back
sometimes too.

Me, well if I stand on the seat I can see the line...

 

It appears as though this is the case,
even happens with riders who get new bikes

 

Stoner did a helluva lot more crashing than just in his first year of
MotoGP - he'd been regularly crashing them ever since the 125s! What
kept him going was that he was bloody good when he was still upright,
and his potential was obvious. I remember one of the regular comments
from commentators in his 125 days was along the lines that "at the
moment he can either ride fast or crash, but as soon as he learns to
ride fast and stay on, he'll win the championship".

I think anyone can learn how to not crash, if they don't ride too fast.
On the other hand, learning how to ride that fast is a real skill, and
one that can take time to develop - and in the mean time, they're so
close to the edge that crashes are more or less inevitable. Lorenzo can
certainly ride fast, but I think he's much the same as Stoner - he'll
win a championship or three just as soon as he can learn to do so and
stay on the bike as well.

 

Interesting comments I recall from discussions about the IOM TT quite
a while back. Joey Dunlop was obviously the master of this track.
Watch what he does, he looks like he's going for a Sunday ride until
you see how quickly he would pass other riders. This prompted a
comment from a guy who raced there a few times. He'd encountered a
problem with the bike (I can't recall what) but decided to slow down
and nurse the bike back to the pits (which can take a while at IOM) so
pulled back and just concentrated on getting his lines smooth and
counted on not losing too much time and getting the minor problem
fixed quickly and get out on the track again. That proved to be the
quickest lap he'd ever done at IOM.

So find that limit, yeah, OK and I agree that if you don't know where
the limit is, you don't know when you are about to cross it. But I
also think you do know as you are hitting that limit. In all my years
of racing cars, I never went off the track. Not once. OK, not the same
level, for sure, but I can tell when a car is about to spear into the
armco, and I'd rather not be in it when it does. I have competed at a
high enough level to be given Sir Jack Brabham's Porsche to time Targa
stages and competed in state championship rounds of Sport Sedans,
which are the quickest sedans you can run in, faster at most tracks
than V8 Supercars.

So, is it really necessary to keep crossing that limit? Rossi has had
very few crashes compared to someone like Barry Sheen or Doohan. Yet,
look at his record.

I know I kept feeling I was a wuss for not having gone off-track, and
I certainly went close a few times, but I still think it's not really
a compulsory thing. Plus, it will hurt

 

Awwwww, George..... that was mean!!!!!! <grin>

betty

 

Awwwww, George..... that was mean!!!!!! <grin>

betty

So sorry Betty, but you left yourself open to that

 

Oooh, did not either ;-P That was a Cox's thingy.... I wasn't racing....
Wasn't even bloody going fast. Wasn't even out of my driveway, FFS!!!!!

betty

 

Always happens when you are leaving the house, whether it be on the front
lawn or the driveway, your mind is on other things such as thinking of which
way you are going and what the traffic will be like, whether you will come
up against a cop car or even thinking " Gee this new bike is much quieter
than that last one I had, almost makes me think I am not moving at all"
Which you are not and if the rider happens to have short legs, all it takes
is a "oops, bugger!" and it falls over.

 

Its just possible that he is blisteringly fast, but he's also a slow
learner, ie. he is fearless, so he is willing to go faster than, say,
you or I, but he doesn't yet know that if you make the same mistake
yuo made the last time then you will fall off, just like last time,
and you will get hurt, just like last time.

But he's young, so as long as he doesn't do any permanent damage he
may race long enough to finally learn.


SteveB

 

If you followed M.Schumacher's F1 career you'd see that he often
overcooked a corner during practice or qualifying but rarely during a
race. He found the limit when it didn't count, then drive at [limit-1]
when it did. OTOH some people like Wayne Rainey, ironically, seemed to
be able to ride every corner at [limit-1] while rarely ever crashing...
though K.Schwantz sometimes seemed to be able to ride some corners at
[limit+1] and not crash and then crash on another part of the track
instead.

Nev..
'07 XB12X

 

Hang on, I'm a bit confused.. is it Lorenzo (7 GP seasons, 106 races, 32
pole positions, 23 wins, 1235 points & 2 world championships) or Stoner
(8 GP seasons, 102 races, 11 pole positions, 11 wins, 1174 points & 1
world championship) who you think may "..finally learn"?

Nev..
'07 XB12X

 

Lorenzo. Doesn't matter about the number of races etc.. If he is still
crashing then he hasn't learnt yet.
Stoner worked it out a couple of years ago.

SteveB

 

..... Doesn't matter about the number of races etc.. If he is still
crashing then he hasn't learnt yet.
Stoner worked it out a couple of years ago.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So Mick Doohan was a learner then? His career was ended in a crash.
Rainey too; fark what a novice!!
Carl Fogarty? Kevin Schwantz?
How about Kev Curtain and Troy Bayliss; they'll never achieve anything until
they learn to stop crashing eh?
They should all try to be more like Simon Buckmaster ; he never crashed
trying a risky overtake!
Neil Hodgson had a good finish-rate too. So does Fonsi Neito and Nicky
Hayden.
Alex Criville was even a world champion while being an iconic champion of
long-lasting mediocrity!

 

Maybe in your world, but in the real world, his success is measured in
the metrics I quoted above, not by some "learning" system which SteveB
defines.

Nev..
'07 XB12X

 

Even he crashed (although he took out an Aussie in the process!).


G-S

 

I started racing years ago and kept falling off and therefore, never
winning a race because I was always overtaking on a risky corner,
Now, I have overcome the falling off and I no longer crash on a corner or
the straights, but I still haven't won a fucking world championship

 

Yeah - and Rainey is another example. Except for the one that nailed
him, unfortunately.

I'm still not sure. Could I have done better by really finding those
limits? I'm reasonably confident that I was pushing the car to its
edge. You can feel the back end starting to step out and go "Well,
that's about it then". And in the rally car I didn't mind the back end
stepping out (for obvious reasons) but you could still feel where it
was about to go "Oh ****".

But there's probably a case for the guys that test that "Oh ****" to
the Nth degree.

But again, there are a lot of high achievers who rarely went off the
track. It's a hard call. Personally, I'm not fond of bits of metal
holding my body together (not that I've tried it yet), so I'll take
the fun I've had and go with that.

 

Yes, they all crash( or crashed), but they stayed upright enough
between crashes to make their mark.

Lorenzo, even though he has had his share of wins, has not learned the
finer points of the MotoGP scene yet. But I am sure he will, if, as I
said, he doesn't injure himself permanently.

SteveB